Briefing In
Picture this: You're seated at home in your cozy little work-from-home space, and it’s serene and quiet. Too quiet, in fact, that you start to miss chitchatting with co-workers at the office.
Introducing "Briefing In," the ultimate podcast for VAs by VAs. Join our laid-back chats on everything from starting a Virtual Assistant journey to navigating the struggles of work-life balance with remote work.
So join us every other Tuesday, whether you're working or simply unwinding, and let Briefing In feel like home.
Briefing In
EP04 Real-Life VA Stories: Is WFH Really Worth it?
This is a special episode brought to you by Briefing In! In the 4th episode of the podcast, we not only talk about our VA guest, Chad, but also dive into some real-life VA stories! Get your popcorn ready as we learn more about what a Virtual Director’s Assistant does and also get deep into some juicy VA stories.
Chad reveals the difference between the work culture of an office environment and a work-from-home setting, and gets honest about how it isn’t all just rainbows and butterflies. We also talk about the pros and cons of what it is like to work from home, reading interesting VA Reddit stories and of course, spilling some VA tea.
Let us know what you thought of this episode!
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TIMESTAMPS:
(00:00) - Opening Spiel
(00:50) - Introducing Chad
(01:54) - Chapter 1: Discussion on VA and director’s assistant role
(08:01) - Chapter 2: Reddit stories discussion
(08:23) - Chapter 3: Time fraud story
(15:35) - Chapter 4: VA scammed story
(23:58) - Chapter 5: Pros and cons of working from home story
(39:17) - Chapter 6: Micromanaging client story
(48:10) - Chapter 7: Work from home vs onsite/hybrid story
(56:19) - Chapter 8: Low wages for VAs story
CONNECT WITH CHAD:
Instagram: @chadc137
START YOUR VA JOURNEY:
As part of “The VA’s Playbook: Productivity Series”, you can now get a FREE copy of The 5 Essentials Guide for Virtual Assistants! Head over to our Instagram and click the link in our bio to access this guide!
Read the full transcript of Episode 4 here.
Music in episode from TELL YOUR STORY music by ikson™
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Intro
Hi everyone, welcome back to another episode of the Briefing In podcast. This episode is going to be a special one because we'll be doing something a little different. We're going to dive into some Reddit stories. All of the topics will be work from home related, and I'm sure you guys are just as curious as I am to know more about what people need advice on.
I'm your host Chelsea, and this is Briefing In. This episode was made possible thanks to one of our listeners, Jonathan, for suggesting we do an episode like this. And our team for doing all the research. And because this episode is a little different, our guest also is a little different from all the other guests we've had so far. So before we jump into the Reddit stories, let me introduce our guest for today.
Chad is joining us, and Chad is an executive assistant or a director's assistant, and he's been working as a VA for a good three years now. Chad is a graduate of Bachelor in Arts, major in cinema, and he is an aspiring filmmaker. He used to work as a wedding photographer and videographer for a couple of years, and he makes the average time people spend in front of computers look like rookie numbers. Some of his favorite shows include Brooklyn Nine-Nine, How I Met Your Mother, The Big Bang Theory, and he loves to watch those on repeat just to silence the voices in his head. He used to be a former cheerleader in college, which meant he picked up girls, quite literally, as a sport. He's an avid consumer of no-brainer isekai anime, and his philosophy in life is, while some people eat to live, he lives to eat. Welcome, Chad, to the Briefing In podcast.
Chapter 1: Discussion on VA and Director’s Assistant Role
Hey Chelsea, I'm really glad to be here.
Thanks for joining us. How are you feeling today?
Nervous, but you know how it always goes.
Are you an avid Reddit reader?
Oh yes, I go to Reddit for a lot of things, especially for my games. Sometimes, like, you know, just look at videos of people doing mad stuff.
So, Chad, we've had general VAs on the podcast, and I don't think a lot of people know exactly what a virtual director's assistant does. So maybe you can talk a bit about what you do for work.
Essentially, I assist directors. I mean, it's a job, but it can go more than that. It's not just directors, it's producers, it's other DAs, especially like my client right now is in Australia. So I actually have another colleague who's also a DA there, and I generally assist him in assisting the directors. So essentially, we make pitches to send to clients. It's how they get business, basically. They're an advertising company, a production company that focuses on TV commercials.
Okay.
I just assist them when I can, like, put the pictures in, put slides in. Whenever we do get the job, I actually also help us present to the client what the director wants to present, what the director wants to film, such as storyboards, art references, art department locations. I get to put them in one slide so they can show them, like after they do a tech recce, I'm not sure how to pronounce it, REI or REI, but basically like reconnaissance. But in Aussie, what's the main difference between an onsite director's assistant and a virtual one?
Basically just run around like an onsite can potentially be in the shoot. Like, he could be a runner. He has all the papers, essentially. I mean, it's the production manager's job, but he can very well much assist with that. So, they essentially are just the PA, which is personal assistant for the director. We're not exactly the assistant director, which is a really different job. We were just personal assistants for the directors during shoots, but mostly in the online space, we stick there with all the paperwork and stuff, like gathering everything, make sure it's presentable for the client and agency whenever we do get a shoot or when we make pitches.
I'm sure all this must make more sense for people who have a bit of background in film and are more familiar with that industry. But it is kind of interesting to know that you can be a virtual director's assistant.
Oh, yeah, I was not aware.
Yeah, I feel like that's not something that people know about.
I'm just really glad because it's in the career that I like and then it is in line. So essentially, this could really beef up my resume in case I do move on to this career. But yeah, I'm just very thankful I actually found this job.
How did you find this job?
Thing is, I wasn't looking for this job specifically. Because like I said, I wasn't aware it was actually in existence. I actually applied for a video editor. Cause like it was pandemic time. We were all stuck. I was job hunting and then pandemic hit. So whatever jobs I was accepted in, they had to cut me off. Cause like they only needed to keep a small portion of people. So I was jobless for a while. So, you know, video editing is hard. It's not really my specialty, but I do know how to do it. So that's what I applied for, even though it was not exactly a video editor job. And then so I did apply and then turns out the client was looking for someone who's interested in cinema or filmmaking. I could do that. Whatever it is, at least it's something I'm familiar with. But the job title was video editor.
Okay. So Chad, you've been a DA for three years now. What's your favorite thing about your job?
My bosses, to be honest. My bosses, my colleagues. Like they're really helpful to me. Like I was in a really toxic work culture, right? I mean, my workmates were great. Management was terrible. It was really bad. Like it was before being a virtual assistant. So I can really contrast the difference between the two. Like the transparency between departments would, between the people who are, you know, above you, and you can really feel that people here would really smudge in your face that they are above you. You can really feel that. When it comes to my clients now in Australia, basically just human. Like they don't make me feel like they're way above me that I can't talk to them like a normal person. And that's the thing, like I can. Especially with sudden jobs or like time pressure on us, like, yeah, I make mistakes, but they talk to me like they want me to learn rather than they're just reprimanding me for making a mistake. You can really tell that they want me to grow with them. It's a really nice culture. You can really tell it's very different.
A follow-up question on that. How many clients do you have or is it just you? Do you work directly with one client, or?
Technically, MOFA is the production company. I am with MOFA.
Oh, okay.
So, but we have different directors in MOFA. Like I think, there's seven now, or eight. By clients, I mean the companies that need a TV commercial from MOFA.
So you don't consider it the directors, your clients, you consider them your colleagues.
Technically, I still work for them.
Yeah, but you're working with them.
Yeah.
And you're working for these clients, which are these businesses where a lot.
Big ones too, like McDonald's, Ampols, if you've heard of that. It's like a major petrol company in Australia.
Okay, okay.
There's a lot, to be honest. It's really fun. There's Toyota. Like, I love cars. I got to work with the new GR86, with the new Land Cruisers. It's really nice.
Chapter 2: Reddit Stories Discussion
That sounds really cool, but yeah, thanks for letting us know exactly just what a virtual director's assistant does. Um, cause I'm sure it's probably on everyone else's mind as well, like, what does one do? But, yeah, so, you ready to jump into all these Reddit stories?
Oh, definitely. You guys are in for a treat.
Chapter 3: Time Fraud Story
Alright, the first one. Oh, it's a bit of a, it's a bit of a lengthy one, but here it goes. So my brother committed time fraud and I got dragged into his mess. Okay, so my brother and I applied as virtual assistants for a Filipino company. I will not name the company and they hire virtual assistants and cater to the US Canadian or Australian clients. We both liked the 20,000 Pesos starting salary at first, but after like a year and a half, we discovered that the clients pay like 2,000 to 3,000 USD. So that's around 100 to 150 pesos per month. All of us are paid 20,000 starting regardless of the VA skills and experience. The hourly rate was around 2.5 to 3 dollars. So it's rather small compared to like, yeah, it's usually like that to be honest. And even the longtime virtual assistants were also still at 20k. So, some had increases, but it was only that they were the best performers in the company. Still, 25k, a 5k increase, is too low, especially if you were in the company a long time. Both me and my brother agreed that this kind of monthly payment is peanuts compared to what the clients are really paying and even joked, "Oh, if they only knew about online jobs, pH, these companies will go bankrupt." So I told him to look for another company and I was looking for one as well, but was unlucky, he got a high paying new job, but that was an Upwork and not OLJ. So that's online jobs, pH. And I've heard that Upwork is a pretty popular one.
Oh, it's really popular, but it's very competitive too. Because of the, you have to pitch yourself, basically, you have to pitch yourself to the client, but it is, in fact, direct, even though Upwork probably takes a small portion.
Okay.
But yeah, you really have to market your skills. You gotta have a really solid portfolio.
Especially because now it's probably so populated.
Saturated, yeah.
Saturated, yes. But yes, so, OP got around, um, OP's brother, rather, got around 10 per hour. And he was kind of envious of his brother. So he had all the reasons to resign from his current job now. But what he did instead was he stayed in the company. He ran Time Doctor 2 from the old company that paid him 2. 523 per hour, and the Hub Staff from the new company that paid 10 per hour, and he ran these at the same time. So basically he's milking out the money from the old company, and he did both work from both companies at the same time. At one point he got caught because he started using programs and applications that weren't used by the client or the company itself. Usually when VAs are let go in the company, they still have a month to stay before they are fully let go, but in his case, it was let go immediately. His client wanted to hire him directly, but since they signed a contract, they couldn't do it. What's kind of ironic is that I was also let go of the company because me and my brother lived together, which for me was kind of unfair. Seriously, my brother could have at least resigned from the company instead of him milking them and dragging me to his mess. But what's also not fair is just because I had a connection with him, or was living with him, I was let go even though I had a good performance. There's an edit. So a lot of VAs have done this actually, although I am not sure if they timed the two jobs all together, or if they timed the jobs separately. Still, on the contract it says that we are not allowed to do other jobs. But even some VAs in the company that I personally know of still do a lot of side gigs, additional clients, and other stuff that, you know, Makes them additional income. Makes me wonder why they also did not get fired like us. So the brother in him, or maybe it's because we don't have close ties inside the company. People even encourage us to resign because of how many years the company has been operational. Even the long term ones didn't get enough pay. What do you guys think?
Initial thought. What's unfair? Both of them getting fired?
Yeah, both of them. Like, she has no stake in this. I mean, they could probably made the reason that they live together. She should have, you know, told the company when she found out and she didn't. I mean, it's still not grounds for firing someone, especially not even with that, even if they were performing good or bad, like it's essentially illegal just to like let go of someone just for those reasons. And I think that's one of the problems with, I'm just going to say a lot of problems with Filipino companies. There is a lot. And some work from home companies aren't accepted from this problem either. Like, they think we could just bend rules because they can't really be sought off after legally. Some are like, in that gray area. And they're just like, being there, making them feel like they're untouchable. So they can do these bad stuff. Or they can treat people badly. Like, it's a job. It's a really important thing. Like, people's lives depend on that. Like, you just get them off that just for basically nothing.
But you have to take into consideration that he was just losing that job. It wasn't like he wasn't secure in finding another one.
I mean the brother.
Like the one who got fired without reason.
The brother the one who got fired because he was doing.
Oh I was talking about the OP.
Okay, no brother who got caught that's basic that brother's he was violating his.
Basically, yeah, you should not do another job during company time. It's essentially, you know, jobs, literally what jobs rules are.
But the second guy, OP, that's a totally different story.
Okay. Well, the commenters have a different opinion. So, um, one commenter said they're right. As in like the company. The employer's decision to fire you is justified. Letting fraudulence happen is just as bad as committing fraudulence. I know it sucks that alerting the management might affect your relationship with your brother, but it's the cost of being honest. Or, since you didn't stop your brother enough, you should accept that these are your consequences. Another commenter said, You were witnessing his time fraud, but you didn't discourage or report it. I'd fire you too if I were your employer.
So is the verdict A?
Yeah, it seems like everyone thinks it was justified, the both of them, being let go. Another one said, Integrity is really important, especially for us remote workers. Yes, you can game the system without being caught, but one way or another, this will haunt you down the road. Plus, no peace of mind because of the constant stress that you might be caught doing that thing. And in your case, the OP's case, I think it's justified. You know what's going on, but you didn't take any action. And whether you like it or not, you will be caught in the fire. One frantic move of your bro lets them question all the things you guys have done in the past. And agencies or companies really suck.
Chapter 4: VA Scammed Story
Alright, Chad, are you ready to dive into some Reddit stories? Woo! Reddit stories! Okay, first one. Virtual assistant scammed by a fellow Filipino currently in Canada. First of all, this did not happen to me, M, but to my partner, F. Oh, me male, the partner female. She's a recent graduate in psychology. She stopped working with the Sykes company because her team leader wouldn't process her requests from part time to full time due to her pregnancy. Therefore, she decided to stop working and focus on her pregnancy. Considering it will be challenging to find a new job while pregnant. Despite multiple VA job offers during her pregnancy, she accepted one as an HR assistant, part time, and another related to sales. She received payment for her HR assistant role, but had to stop as she was about to give birth. However, for the sales VA role, she was paid only 5,000 pesos, despite working for them for two months, and they never paid the correct salary amount.
Recently, she was excited to receive an invitation from a fellow Filipino living in Canada, who wanted her to be his personal VA, handling tasks from lead generation and research to general admin tasks and Shopify product creation. I was genuinely happy for her, hoping it would alleviate our financial situation, but unfortunately it worsened as the client never paid her supposed salary for over a month's worth of work. The client kept promising payment, giving various reasons for delays. Such as worsening asthma or being bedridden. Despite my frustration, my partner remains hopeful, especially because we desperately need the money to pay our loans and our daughter's upcoming birthday. I've devised a plan to address the situation, including taking screenshots of their telegram conversations, noting his Facebook posts and clients, and saving his clients contact information. I intend to contact his clients to inform them of the situation, and request their assistance in persuading the client to pay my partner. However, my partner is hesitant, feeling that I might be overreacting. If you were in my situation, or my partner's, would you let this client go, or would you take similar action to what I am planning to do?
So, his partner's client is Filipino still, who's in Canada.
Who's based in Canada. And what OP is planning to do is confronting that Filipino in Canada's client, and letting them know about what that Filipino in Canada is doing to his partner.
It's her friend, right? Or just someone out of the blue contacted her?
I mean, sometimes, like, people hint, or like, lean on that. They're friends, so they could be very crappy about not paying them directly. What if it's some random person?
Or as someone they knew.
So it's a total stranger. A lot of scams actually happen. Sometimes they usually use like WhatsApp or Telegram. They offer you a job apparently as a virtual assistant. It's always the same thing. It's usually like that. Like Pidgen, Shopify, sometimes like some weird apps to be honest. I mean, I've seen people. fall into those kinds of scams and basically giving them free labor, sometimes even asking money. And this one is, isn't project based. This one is like a longterm kind of working relationship. So there should be a steady income every fortnight or every month. Because that's supposed to be their arrangement. Initially, like, the moment, like, you are entitled to your pay. The moment they don't pay you, especially after a month's work, it's a big red flag. Like, you should really be ready to let that go. Like, you can't be patient about that, because it's your money.
No, I mean, I think what he's asking is if he should let the client go, as in, just don't go after the money. And just, like, stop working for this client? Yeah, swim it.
Or should, should he, they still try to get him to pay?
Both. They should let him go and still get, get him to pay for the amount they're owed. But yeah, I don't think there's a big chance of it working.
Mm hmm.
Because, you know, you know how it is, but telling the clients though, like that person's clients, that he's not paying his due. I'm not sure. I think, I'm not sure if it's even legal to do that.
I don't see why it wouldn't be since for one thing, the partner, in this case, the guy, doesn't have a relationship whatsoever with his wife's boss. Yeah, but it might be constituted to a sabotage, is it?
I'm not sure if it is, because it doesn't seem like it's a violation of confidentiality or anything. It's just like letting the clients know that, you know, this person you're working with, he doesn't pay his employees.
I mean, if that happened to me even if I disagree with doing that, I'd probably do it.
Yeah, I don't think it's necessarily illegal to do that. I don't think so. It's frowned upon.
Only one scenario that business did not prosper and the client businesses failed and he has no money to pay your wife or to pay his employees. As a business, you have to bleed money for employees. To start and work your way up to level of break even if the business did go as it was planned, but in this case he dove too quickly and he sank um, and then OP responded. Thank you for your input. His business is doing well I guess as I've been searching for information using his name on social media and other platforms I discovered that he has a website asking for financial help for those in need despite this you I've seen some of his recent posts on social media, where he's meeting new clients and engaging in business activities, so I don't think his business went down, but I haven't seen any posts about him being a scammer, or someone who doesn't pay his VAs, and he'll respond to my partner's salary inquiry at least once or twice a week, and kept on saying that he'll make it right or expect the payment within 24 to 48 hours. So he's not ghosting her. He's not ghosting the VA.
Still not paying though and like lying about it. Basically still. I think the reason why he's not ghosting her is he still wants her to work. Even though he's not paying her.
And I think, yeah. I think that's like one of their concerns is should they just like let go, cut ties, and then just accept that they're not gonna get paid?
It's a hard decision, to be honest. Because like, you really do need the money. Yeah. But sometimes you have to get to the point where you have to cut your losses. Like that time could be better spent looking for another job or working for another job. That actually pays in time rather than keep holding on to the possibility that they will pay you eventually. But it is so not fair to your partner like OP's partner at all.
Well, someone said go for it. She helped him with his business. He doesn't keep his end of the deal and decides to not pay so it's either he pays up or his reputation and business suffers. And OP responded, My partner has requested that we wait for another week before taking any action, as she prefers not to escalate the situation. While she understands the urgency of meeting the funds, she's still hopeful that he will correct the situation, though I have doubts. And the commenter replied with, It's a good thing your partner is very patient. Um, and it's good, especially because you have children. You'll both need that. Hoping this gets straightened out within the week. Just get as much info you have against him while waiting, so that when you're both ready to pull the trigger, you have as much ammo. And OP responded with, Yep, I've saved a lot of screenshots and his info. Checked his social media friends, who are also in Canada, so I'll surely let them know as well, if ever he doesn't pay up. Though the amount is not that much, we do badly need it as we don't have to burden our parents anymore.
Chapter 5: Pros and Cons of Working from Home Story
Tough break.
Yeah. Like what you said earlier, it is kind of always better safe than sorry. You know, make sure when you're going to these contracts or into these working relationships with clients, especially when you're the one who's going to be doing the work, and those. Supposed to be compensated for the service. You have to make sure that you don't get the bent end of the stick and you have to make sure that there has to be an understanding between you both of what you're expecting in, um, in this, in this exchange.
While working relationship, you also have a contract, like something you can legally hold on to in case. And I think in a lot of cases, still most VAs who do freelance and kind of just find jobs and work directly with people who are like looking for VAs, I don't necessarily think they have contracts or they don't. They go into that.
That's a sad thing though. Sometimes we just don't have a choice.
Because sometimes they also just prefer sort of not having that legal being legally bind or just having the flexibility to go to and from each.
Yeah, like someone I agree with, a comment or two, like, wait a week, maybe gather as much as you can. If it doesn't work, then.
I do think the VA should leave because they are still doing tasks for their client who isn't paying them. And if they already couldn't pay for that one month, and if you keep working and it adds up, you know, they can't pay you for that month. So I don't think it's a good idea to expect that they can pay you for like the other days that you've been working for.
Chances are if they can do that to you once, they will keep doing that to you.
Yeah, leave. Get out there as fast as you can.
Yeah, because like what you said, you're already doing your service for free at this point. It's been more than a month and you've been extra patient. And you're with babies. Okay, so the next story is, it's a bit of a, it's a bit of a mild one, just someone looking for advice. What are the pros and cons of working from home? As a working on site person who has recently transitioned to working from home, can someone help me learn the pros and cons of this new arrangement, taking into consideration factors such as productivity, work life balance, social interactions, and overall job satisfaction? What are the pros and cons for you?
The four hours of commute. Four hours? Four hours. Even if I had a motorcycle, I used to work like, it's not really far, but traffic makes it far. Get rid of that. Give a lot more of your day you can use.
It's really good. Like, that's the best thing I could pitch to someone who wants to work from home. Second pro, and you're at home. It's comfy. You can spend time with your family during work though. There are cons that come with it too. But for now, I'll just stick to like those two things. Those two really good things. Big one really is time. Getting some of that time back for yourself. And that's why we're working so we can get more time for ourselves.
Cons? Can you think of any?
Oh. You don't go out as much. Sometimes it makes you become a homebody. Even worse, I mean, I added a lot of weight. I'm just saying. Cause, you know, I don't go out that much anymore. No more walking, none of the physical things. It could lead to, you know, you gaining more weight. Another is, sometimes people ask you to do things even though you're working.
Because they think you're just available.
Yeah, like readily available. Like they don't, sometimes people don't see your work seriously. Like it's the whole call center thing again. Like when call centers first started, like people were like, that's not a real job. That's not a real career. You're gonna get, you know, you're gonna be stuck there not knowing that people who actually graduate in college earn a lot less than people in call centers. Yeah, it's just how people perceive things and they don't see what's the good in it. And I'm not saying call centers are the best. Some toxic work cultures are there. Work from home. It's a new thing. People always fear new things. Oh, another con about this. You might be lonely. You might get lonely. You don't have colleagues to talk to. You might have, but you're still in the online space.
It's not like socializing with them.
Like not that face to face socializing. It's so different. But you know, if you're, if you're an introvert, it might work for you. It might really work for you.
But then it also might kind of feed into, or it might feed those. Introverted tendencies that makes you have a hard time socializing.
I'm just saying, um, I'm not sure if I should blame work from home. I don't want to discourage anyone. I don't know, my anxiety, my social anxiety has increased since I started working from home.
Maybe it's just because of the lack of social interactions with people.
Yeah, because I think socializing is a perishable skill.
Totally. Totally. You can learn it, but the more you don't use it, the more you lose it. Okay. Well, that's what OP wanted to take into consideration, you know, social interactions and overall job satisfaction. So, um, it's good that we covered that. Um, for the comments, one person said you reclaim a large part of your life back as your own. So your job used to commandeer a huge chunk of your time and by proxy your life time spent commuting all the time during a day that might not have been 100 percent work focused. So you get to reclaim that and time is the one thing we have that can be bought. It's finite and a lot of that is now yours. Again, cons. You do need to make adjustments. You might have conditioned yourself to think that your work life is your social life, too. Some people may have a void now that they need to fill, and you'll need to actively work at it. Not everyone does. I, for example, did not miss people interactions one bit. I wanted to be left alone to get my work done. But some people will need to actively figure out how to compensate. I also want to, uh, does matter what industry or what field you're in because sometimes you take up a job that doesn't necessarily require engaging with a group of people. But if you're in a job that requires that. You know, like for example, um, teaching students online or working with a team of people on a project, like collaboratively. Another con would be it puts your interpersonal skills at risk because again, it's a perishable skill and interpersonal skills are so important in the workplace. But sometimes though, like what you said, it depends on the industry. Cause I interact with a lot of people in my job. But the producers, the directors, but the other DAs, but yeah, there is that lacking connection, especially personal connection.
Yeah.
Like you can really build with other people, especially with your coworkers.
Absolutely.
Cause like my old job in a company, like I was like working on site. I love my team. Like we were so close and we are still, but yeah, like working from home, like just existing in a virtual place does not have the same satisfaction as like hanging out with people. Your actual workmates.
And I think it also prolongs that process. I think if you're meeting your workmates in person, you can form those connections and those bonds in a week's time. But because you're online, it can take you months before you start to feel comfortable around people.
Oh, it took me years!
And opening up to people. So there's that, too. A commenter said, pros, pajamas all day, cons, pajamas all day.
I mean, I'm not complaining.
I like what this commenter did, which is really list down all the pros and cons. So for them, pros, pajamas all day. No commute time. You can get to work on time with more energy since you don't have to spend energy on the drive there or like getting ready. I'm just saying, you start, your work starts at 8, you wake up 7. 59. I can also sleep in an extra time and there's so much more productivity when you're well rested. A second one, and I think you'll like this. Temperature. If the men control the thermostat in the office, it's freezing. If the women control the thermostat, it's boiling. There is no in between. At home, my wife and I have separate home offices with separate thermostats. Do not underestimate the power of being in a comfortable environment when you're working. Absolutely. Fewer distractions. At the office, I can hear everyone else's phones. People will pop in to say hello, discuss what's on TV, etc. I can get stuff done a lot quicker. Another one is less office drama. You're less likely to have to deal with harassment, hostile work environment, gossip, etc, if you're fully remote.
Gossip can be a pro.
And if you're not on video, you can save money on office wardrobe. This is less important than it used to be with casual offices. I think the less office drama is sort of a byproduct of your lack of socialization with your co workers. Because again, if you lack that connection, then you're less likely to open up to people. You're less likely to form. Friendships or cliques or things that could lead to hostility. That means there is no place for drama to brew because you don't have that connection.
I know it's toxic, but sometimes I do live for the gossip.
For the tea.
Like the tea, man. Bring out your fanciest China. There's new tea. But yeah.
And that's also some of the things things co workers bond over. Yeah, definitely. The tea in the office.
I've made so much friends, so many friends, just because of tea. So effective. Like, maritesses, like how we, what we call gossipers here. I am, I'm certified.
So, con. Some people can't separate work from home. Work home from home life if they work from home, they feel like they're always on and can't escape it. That's very true.
Very true.
If you don't have a specific workspace that you can see love, you might run afoul of privacy laws, which is HIPAA, which is, um, health. Privacy violations, like the law regarding health privacy, um, and etc. Your family members might not respect work from home.
Oh, yeah. That's what I said. It's like, damn.
Your business might have a more difficult time managing remote workforces. It's a different skill set and requires that you hire people who are good at work from home. That's true too. Some of the qualities that you want in someone who is a remote worker is they're self sufficient, they have initiative, they're resourceful. Someone, uh, also said, Burn out, isolation, depression. Some people use their work life as a social interaction. If you work from home, you might not interact with other humans. This can lead to isolation and depression. It might enable social anxiety and prevent people from growing, uh, from growing socially. For some, getting up, getting ready, and putting on work clothes psychs you up. To go to the office and get things done without that you may skip that step and your brain doesn't switch gears and the last point is no matter how you slice it. It's more difficult to train remotely versus in person. It's more difficult to team build remotely versus in person. A lot of communication and nuance is lost even with video. There's something about visual observation to train and mentor people. It's easier and more effective to do this in personal, in my opinion. It's improved as people get more used to remote, but it's still not there. Building personal relationships at work can lead to a more cohesive workforce, and would, in theory, improve productivity. Alright, I think we've laid it out pretty comprehensively, what the pros and cons are of working from home. And I think it really boils down to what type of worker you are as well and whether it's suitable for you.
Also really depends on the client too. It's sometimes timing.
Yeah, sometimes you really do get lucky with your clients. Like sometimes your clients are the reason why work from home is terrible. Sometimes they're the reason why it's such a dream.
Chapter 6: Micromanaging Client Story
Alright, next story. Should I drop this client? Ooh, another one. I need advice because this situation is quite unique. My client micromanages me. I do social media work for him and he's always changing his mind on things or forgetting that, for example, we agreed to do some postings. Or he uses me to direct website projects and design projects. I am supposed to be the social media manager, yet I am even a project manager for his monthly event. Did I agree to do all that? No. Do I do this because otherwise it won't get done by his team and I won't be able to do my social media work? Yes. I am supposed to also be running his paid campaigns, but I hadn't even found the time to do this with everything else. Every little task needs his approval, so if a team member that's on the higher chain of myself asks me for something, I am wrong for assuming that this has his approval and I need to run it by him. I am supposed to do 10 hours a week. Lol. I increased my rate because of the meetings he's asking me to have, but now I find myself feeling incredibly annoyed at this client. I got yelled at for posting a video on social yesterday, which I received from the video team that was approved by him, just because the website disappears at the end of the video and it's not supposed to be like that. You're supposed to check. And internally, I am like, how am I supposed to know what you exactly want? Another thing is, I have weekly meetings with an operations manager to define the social media flow. Basically, I go explain to her how my process is for doing my work, kind of reassuring that I'm being efficient, and they also have asked me to record how I do reports, pick social trends, and basically do stuff. I feel like this isn't something someone would give away if you're a professional, you know? I took this client because it was money I needed. However, my full time job gave me a raise that I wasn't expecting, and that basically will surpass the amount of money I earn with this client, and I feel that this is a holy sign that I should politely give the client my two weeks. I am also going through a breakup, so I could use some time off. However, I am afraid of my reputation and being dumb, because by keeping this client, I would make even more money than I needed. But I don't know, guys. I feel my client needs a full time social media marketing person, or maybe I'm exaggerating and being an idiot. Thoughts?
The only thing your client needs is a mind reader. Like, of course you're, of course you don't know exactly what he thinks. Because you're not a mind reader. Those clients are so annoying. Like, they are very rampant. They are more common than you think. People just expect so much.
Or, yeah, like, expects you to know what they like. How they're thinking.
Like, girl, get rid of him. Like your company, your company did give you more money that encompasses. What that guy's paying you and he is not that that client is not worth your time of day. Like it's not worth the mental pain. You have to go through every single time. You have to interact with him. It's not worth the anxiety he gives you. Like if you're gonna post something like there's always that something in the back of your head that you might get scolded again for something. He asked you to do or he approved. It's not worth it. Trust me. It's a red flag.
I do think it might be worth communicating or like letting your client know that they can also help you out in a way that it's a two way street because sometimes they might not have the time or they just don't have the ability to see from a different perspective. So it might help to reach out and I know it's a difficult thing to do and if OP isn't comfortable doing this, of course, this might be not good advice, but if they're comfortable bringing it up, I think it is worth bringing up. And they said, they mentioned that they work with other members who like in a team member that's on the higher chain of myself. So let them understand why you're having a hard time doing your job. Especially if you know that it's not because of your performance, it's because they're not setting you up for success, they're setting you up for failure.
It's usually the worst kind.
Exactly. And if OP, if, you know, it depends on the circumstances, but if they think it's worth mentioning and communicating these things to the team and to his client, then I think it's worth it. Trying because.
Building what you said like she's going out of the she's going out of that company anyways might as well you know try a hail mary pass or like sure you can you can always cancel your two weeks notice if the client changes but if you do want to keep it you could try what you can, you could try bringing it up to him, and if he does scold you again, or he's gonna hate you after that, at least you're on your way out already. But if, that's if you really need the money. It's dumber if you keep holding on to something that basically abuses you. It's really not worth the mental health it takes off. Trust me, it is really important that you do enjoy your job. Cause like, jobs are supposed to be hard. And it's even harder if the bosses, your boss, won't cooperate with you as much as you'd like.
And if you feel that, especially because they only work 10 hours a week, if you feel that you're doing things that's outside of your scope of responsibility.
For free. Essentially for free.
I think they're still getting paid, because they're not saying they're doing overtime. Yeah, but like,
It's not in their job description. That's the thing companies used to do, too. Like, I mean, they still do. They purposely keep the job description, what do you call it?
Vague? Yeah, vague. So they can abuse you. Like, they can put any workload on you. Like, without training you or, like, letting you know. It's kind of abusive, to be honest. It's a, it's a major red flag. Might not be the best decision to stay. A commenter said, I agree as well. Drop if possible. But also remember this can occur in the future. I use Sprint Process to have like many contracts of what my clients want completed. That way there is a reference point when they say I didn't do something right. Another commenter said, Anytime anyone yells at you for anything, you leave. If they're paying you extremely well, then maybe I'd consider staying. But you have to remember that at that stage, you're being paid to be their punching bag, as much as you're being paid because of your skills. And if you're fine with that, then that's totally legit, but you do have to be aware that that's what the situation is. Not having to deal with bad bosses is one of the key perks of being a freelancer. If you don't want to work with someone, you find someone else.
You really have to choose your bosses.
Someone said, I'd probably sit them down and find a way to tactfully explain why you are struggling. Have them define your job duties, and pare it down to what you can fit into 10 hours a week. If they ask you to do something beyond that 10 hours, they should be prepared that you will bill appropriately at x rate. And stop letting them push you into more work if you don't even have the time. They will either adjust and stop treating you like crap. Or they will move on to someone else who they can mistreat. Either way, you can use this as a good learning opportunity to show clients how to treat you, how to emotionlessly communicate your needs and when to let them go. I agree.
Very much agree. You really get to put value in yourself and your time too. I mean, yeah, you probably already do.
You just gotta make sure other people know it too. Cause they, they will really abuse you.
You do have to stand up for yourself sometimes. Yeah. I think it, I personally think it's worth communicating it to the team and to your client. And if you really feel like it's hopeless, they aren't willing to look at your perspective. Then, you know, it's best to.
Just let it go.
Just let it go. Especially.
If somebody screams at you. Like, bro, I can't even take screaming at home. Gives me so much anxiety and like, mental discomfort, lack of a better term. Oh, emotional distress.
Yeah, there you go.
Causes me so much emotional distress. Like, like what the commenter said. If they are paying you extremely well, then you know. It really depends on how much they're paying me to be their punching bag. But if they're paying me well, yeah, I could take a few screams. But yeah, it's overall, just follow what your mental health, or the healthiest for your mental health, for your mental well being.
Words.
Chapter 7: Work from Home vs Onsite/Hybrid Story
Okay, the next one. This one was translated to English because, fun fact, you guys were not fluent in Tagalog. So. I wasn't gonna try to do it on the spot, but this one is, Baganda ba talaga ang work from home? So, is work from home really worth it? OP said, Hello, I'm a fresh grad. I'm currently applying to jobs and most of them are on site, while others are hybrid. There's this one job that I'm applying to that's permanently work from home. It should be noted that this job also pays relatively well compared to the other on site or hybrid jobs I've applied for. It's good to know that there's a possibility of work life balance, and although it's a mid shift, I can also work with that. The exit opportunities available are also promising if I ever decide to change jobs. I'm in the final stages of the job application process, so I'm already looking at all my options. I'm still a bit hesitant because although I really want to try the work from home setup, I also want to meet my colleagues or meet new people at the workplace. I'm actually introverted, but I do want the chance to meet other people and socialize in order to expand my network. Currently need more insights on this. I'm also interested in a hybrid setup, but I'm not sure if I can handle it given the commute, which is already such a hassle for me. I think I just really want to meet people from the workplace as compared to just staring at the screen. I do have friends, but I think their work is on site or hybrid, and I lowkey feel like I'll be missing out on making connections that I'd make if I were in a physical workspace. I know I'm being a baby about this, since I feel like a pie has already fallen onto my lap and I just refuse to eat it, but I genuinely want some advice on this. What can I do to make up for the lack of physical interaction I have with colleagues? Also, what do you guys think? Would you prefer work from home to a hybrid or on site job? Please don't be too hard on me. Thank you for your advice.
She's not being a baby about it. She's genuinely curious. It's like work from home it like I said, it's very relatively new.
Yeah, and there's so many unknowns.
And I think that's why a lot of people on Reddit are like asking like what are the pros and cons? Is it really worth it?
I mean, I get it like after school after you graduated from school, there's really no other way of getting connections to networking yourself to other people rather than your job.
Make sure you can go to events but like constantly have it has to be in a job setting from, like, an actual office setting, which is one of my regrets, to be honest, during school, like, I wish I networked myself more, had more friends, that stuff, but one of the ways to get those kinds of opportunities is to have, to be in an office with other people. That is a con for work from home jobs. Yeah, she's right about some things, but there are pros, too.
Again, like you kind of have to like weigh the pros and cons and see what works for you and what doesn't.
But another way to actually network yourself too is you can network yourself to your clients who are basically global. And again, I guess it matters what field it is, what industry, because if it's one that, I know there are, I feel like typically with video editors or software developers, I think most of the work. They really do is on their own and they don't necessarily need that daily interaction or engagement because they're just like working on this project. And then they kind of submit their work. Once they're done with video editors, software engineers probably has a team.
But I do feel like if you're looking for socialization and again, opportunities to connect with people. People you work with, because I think in some cases it really is just project based.
Yeah. So you just work with them because of the project, you just see them because of the meeting, and everything is just exclusively professional between you guys. So that matters too, for sure. Very much. Really depends on your personal preference.
Yeah. And know what, and it's good to know that when you get, go into a job, are you going to be interacting with people even online, like even in meetings, or are you not going to see people at all? Cause that can happen too. For example, in our cases, we're both work from home jobs. We're both VAs, but I interact with people a lot more regularly than you do.
It can get lonely, but that's why I took on some housemates too.
Yeah, like I said, it kind of depends on, on you, what you really prioritize. If you really prioritize like socialization and things like that. There are always solutions, yeah.
But you have to find other ways of going about it. If you're looking for that in a work from home job, I don't necessarily think if you'll be able to find that.
Got some kinks to work on, to be honest.
Especially if it's not through an agency, especially if it's direct.
Oh, definitely.
Because there are also because if for OP, they don't care as much about the socialization aspect or they don't care as much about networking and things like that, then it's a no brainer.
For those who do care, it is a big thing that isn't present.
Like, one of the best things about having coworkers is that when you rant about your job, you can actually rant to someone who understands, who can actually relate. But if you're working from home or working alone, who can you really rant to? Like, yeah, you can. You have your partners or your friends, but they can only understand so much, you know.
And it can make you feel like you really are on your own.
Yeah, very much.
In your bedroom, just in front of your screen.
Supposed to be a very sacred place, became your work space.
A commenter said, someone echoed that on site may be better for new grads. In a way, you're still learning how to be part of the workforce, especially during training or probation period. It's kind of like online schooling. Yes, you can learn most stuff virtually, but some people understand better in person. Imagine having to go through hours of training videos with no one to ask your simple questions. It varies from person to person, and I will always prefer work from home, but it may be a tiny bit advantageous to go on site occasionally.
Yeah, there are advantages of going on site sometimes, like hybrid work. It could also limit your reach. I mean, the company's reach of employees. Because if you, people have to go on site sometimes, it has to be that one general area. It can't be like everywhere in the country. It's, it's a really different thing compared to like what we're used to. There is a, I'm not sure if the word is learning curve, a really steep learning curve for it. And also like really steep adjustments, but if you can make it work, it really does have a really good advantage to people, especially young people. Work life balance. You have more time for yourself.
A commenter said this. Yeah, human interaction, especially the physical one, will be missed. And the solution for that, probably, is if you want to bond with your teammates or workmates, invite them to hang out in a more neutral place, like at restaurants, bars, karaoke.
Yeah, and this commenter gave the advice that don't be afraid to try work from home. Just learn to disconnect from work just because you're working remotely doesn't mean you're also available 24 7 when you clock out, then you have to clock out no work after hours unless rendered as overtime.
It's very true.
And there's bosses, though, who prefer that you're on call if you're working from home.
It kind of sucks that happens though. Because like, it feels like you're not.
It's never, you're never on your own time.
Yeah, anymore.
Yeah.
Ever.
Chapter 8: Low Wages for VAs Story
Okay. So, this is the last story. Ayoko ako. In English, I really didn't want to share, but I'm so annoyed. Hope y'all don't mind me ranting. I came across a specific Redditor's post where he highlighted his plans for an e commerce business. To be honest, it shouldn't have been a big deal, just something I saw on my feed. But this one line from his post caught my attention. He was saying something about hiring a Filipino VA for 250 per month to post 10 products per day on his website, all social media stores, marketplaces, and a backlink outreach strategy, plus a few hours per week on social media posts. So I got to thinking, that's more or less just 15,000 pesos for all those tasks. In a month. So I commented, good luck on finding a reliable VA that's willing to do that job. Here's a screenshot of our interaction, and it was annoying. So OP said, good luck on finding a dependable VA you can hire to do all those things you want at 250. And then that person I had one before and they were fine. You just have to give them processes to follow. OP replied with, Oh yeah, many of them are reliable. What I just meant was that 250 is honestly too low for many Filipino VAs. I know who are great at what they do. Especially if that's a rate for full time work. The only ones who might accept that rate are either inexperienced or bad apples. Not generalizing, though. And that person said, Nah, 250 is a good salary in Philippines, and great for them since it's a remote job. I already had one full time and it was good. People don't realize that they're way overpaying third world VAs. I'm paying them an average wage there. OP responded with, I respectfully disagree. My brother is living in the Philippines, and honestly, 250 is not enough at all for his daily expenses. He's single, no debts, and not the breadwinner, to boot. Inflation is everywhere now, man. I hope you get that. And the person replied with, You can't disagree with the fact. Google what the average wage is there. Paying the average wage for a chilled remote job is more than fair. If you're paying more than that, then it's an unfair exchange of value, and you're getting scammed, basically. Or they're laughing behind your back for paying them more than everyone else in their country for an easier, better job than everyone else in their country. OP responded with, I wonder who is more liable slash factual in that case. A mere Google search or those people who actually live there. Unless you've lived there for at least a year, we can agree to disagree on this matter. Have a good day. Smile emoji. And that person responded with, I don't wonder what's more reliable. Statistical facts versus your bros saying it's hard to live on 2. 50 USD per month. I'm not saying they live great there on that wage, but it's enough to live like the 150 million people there. do on that wage. I'm not paying for someone to have a luxury lifestyle in third world just for the sake of it. You can, though, if you want. Have a good day, too. Anyway, bye! Back to OP's Reddit post. I hope clients from first world countries understand that we also feel the effects of inflation, even if we're from a third world country. And we too have people to feed and life goals to achieve. We can do this, peeps.
It's all a question of opportunity, to be honest. Like, you can easily say, like, I'm just paying them the minimum wage here. But you're essentially doing the same exact job you'd be paying someone else. For like another country, especially like whatever profit margins you guys have. Like essentially you're doing that job still is my initial thoughts in this. But just because we're being paid crap here. I mean, yeah, this would mean you have to pay us crap too, with them, like, even if you're earning a lot more. For, you know, the job you're doing in the first world, you guys can travel everywhere every year. We can. You have to save up entire years or two years of our salaries just to make the exact same trip you guys do during a spur of the moment thing in the weekend. I don't want to see it sound bitter. It does it will come out bitter for me, but people in my clients to like they travel a lot. Twice, twice, thrice a year. Like, I get it, because like, they started a company. They get paid better there. For me, I, I can't even think of going abroad unless I plan it a year ahead.
Because I really do have to make so much sacrifices on what I can pay for. Like, I have to limit a lot of my life just to afford being able to travel. It's not really fair, in my perspective.
Right. Yeah, the guy, the other person does have a point, but.
Other person as in the one who isn't willing to pay.
Yeah.
The one who's only willing to pay 2. 50 per month.
Yeah, but that's essentially how sweatshops do it in China. Like, yeah, they're paying people their jobs there, so like, the companies, the big companies who outsource their factories there can earn more, you know? It's a really big discussion and really sensitive, so I'm not really sure how to approach it here.
I do think that OP is valid, what they're saying, and that the person that they're speaking to, the one who isn't willing to pay that much or is only willing to pay the minimum wage is. I mean, it does kind of seem like they know how much or the worth of the work costs and they know that they can have that done somewhere for cheaper a lot. So that's why they're they want to pay less.
They're saying it's a scam if people pay for those kinds of, like, they pay people here, like, big wages. It's essentially a scam because we're not earning more here. But it's also a scam. It's pretty scammy of him to go to a place where he can pay a lot less for a job that he knows is worth more. He's essentially doing the scam himself. Yeah, it's very bad. The market here is very bad. Does it mean our work is worth less? Especially if we can produce quality outputs, like the same quality that they could, but we're being paid less because he thinks we should be paid less.
It's about how it kind of also shows how little value you see in, or how little value you put in the work your VA is doing. You don't think they're as valuable. And so you're not willing also to pay because they're you don't think what they're doing is that valuable? For the comments, they said he's hiring on a minimum wage salary. So he deserves a minimum wage quality product. Oh, someone said something that caught my attention. It should be value based, not location based.
There could be an argument made about that, but. I don't want to seem like I'm begging, but yeah, well, I would give to have the same compensation or at least partially the same compensation as people abroad when I'm working the same job as they are possibly even more, I am juggling a lot more, it should be, it should be performance based, not location really hits hard, really hits home. And someone said even if it's location based, the dude was still lying. A quick Google search showed that an average wage in the Philippines is 800 USD, more than thrice than what he was sprouting. He supposed statistical facts don't even back him up. Checking other sources show that the average wage or projected average wage in the Philippines for 2024 ranges from 470 USD to 800 USD. Even if we go back to 2020, average wages was 16,486. Pesos, which was around 330 USD. Still bigger than his measly 250 USD. The word for that really is exploitative.
This is depressing though. Give you that. It's depressing to talk about the harsh reality we're living in, but doesn't have to be hard. You don't have to add to the harshness, you know, I don't want to appeal to your human decency, but it would really help a lot if you do pay us fairly on how much you're earning from our labor.
Yeah, I guess if you have the opportunity, right. And you see right in front of you, you can kind of bet on people to, to take advantage of things like that. That's why it was always good to, yes, we've been talking so much about how there's so many pros to working from home and, you know, it's kind of been beneficial in so many, so many ways. And I do think we got incredibly lucky as well with the jobs that we landed. But it's so important to know that all these things. That are not pleasant, that are not that nice, also exist. I guess one thing with like a con of work from home, that's not necessarily like about the job in general is the different kinds of people that occupy the work from home space, and how they take advantage of things, and the fact that there's no regulations around, the industry, and like what you said that it's because it's such a new concept, but such a demanding one, people are drawn to it with the lack of information and they go into like what we've read so far from these stories, like clients not paying them, them having to do work for free, clients, yelling at them, you know, those things happen also. And that's one of the cons is you don't really, again, because it's such an unregulated industry, you don't have things to back on to be able to filter things properly. You just have yourself to kind of,
it's also the question of job security.
That's a, Oh yeah.
Yeah.
I'm, it's kind of interesting how we've gone through so much and haven't talked about job security and that's a huge con.
One of the major job.
Security. Cause it's such a, again, like a dynamic industry. So, yeah.
I kind of ended on a bit of a negative note there, but after having talked so much about all the pros of working from home.
I mean, technically we're not talking about the cons of working from home, we're talking about the cons of working in a third world country.
But yeah, you gotta make up your strategies as you go in this life.
And just try to make informed decisions along the way. And yeah, because of the fact that not everyone necessarily is proud of the fact that they're, you know, a VA or working remotely or trying online jobs. I, I do also think that's why, um, so much of what goes on is quite personal.
Kept it in secret because we don't really talk about things. That's why people don't understand what the job is. And that's why they also don't understand the red flags or what could go wrong, potentially.
Stay informed guys. It's really important. Information is very important. So you can make an informed decision. You should really stay informed.
And yeah, just because it's a work from home doesn't actually mean it diminishes or it prevents all the kind of. negative, toxic things that happens in a, in a workplace or in a work environment. Those things will, will still happen even if it's in a virtual workspace. Like a toxic work environment can still exist. Toxic colleagues can still exist. Toxic clients can still exist. So that's not exclusive to or exempt from a virtual job. Is there anything else you'd like to add, Chad?
Yeah, just that. Just learn how to value yourselves and your work will speak. Follow through, but yeah, you gotta keep fighting guys. It's not, it's not like a guarantee, especially with the clients you're going to have, but the more you keep trying, the more chances you might end up with a really good one. Like, yeah, sure. You can have all the luck in the world, but sometimes you gotta have, you gotta make your own luck.
Okay. Well, I hope you enjoyed.
Oh yeah. I hope you had.
A good time. Great time. He's read it. Sorry.
Even, even the last part where we got existential.
Yeah, it's still important to know that these things exist and these things happen because it's, it is the way it is and it wouldn't be a really realistic perception also, or there would be some unrealistic expectations set. And this is what, you know, other fellow work from home people are going through. So. Once again, thank you so much to our listeners and Jonathan for recommending that we do this. And we always love hearing what you guys want to see. So we really appreciate you letting us know over on Instagram or other socials that you can find us, which is TikTok. And, yeah, this is a special episode, so who knows when we'll get to do this next, but it was really fun, and yeah, we'll definitely be seeing another dive into Reddit Stories again. Yeah, I guess that's it for us for today. Thank you, everyone, for tuning in and let us know if you have some thoughts of your own or advice to give, what you think of all these Reddit stories we covered today. This has been your host, Chelsea,
and this has been Chad
and we're Briefing Out.