Briefing In

A Fighter's Mindset: What Makes a "Perfect VA"

May 20, 2024 • a podcast for VAs by VAs • Season 1 • Episode 6

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Briefing In is back after a short hiatus with more relatable conversations about the world of Virtual Assistance! And this time, we’re exploring the qualities and mindset that define a "Perfect VA" (and if there really is such a thing?).

Our guest, Ande, possesses a fighter’s mindset, using criticism to help him grow and only ever looking at failure as an opportunity to learn more about himself. In this episode, Ande gets real about what he wished he knew about the industry when he first started out, and he also reflects on what he would have done differently with the knowledge he has now.

Tune in to listen to Ande’s insights on the significant role that mindset and perspective play in one’s professional life, and how humility and continuous improvement are essential for becoming exceptional in what you do. Want to be part of the conversation? Then let us know which work-related qualities you value the most by sending us a message with our new Fan Mail feature! We can’t wait to hear from you!

Don’t miss an episode and get access to exclusive Briefing In content by subscribing to our newsletter!

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) - Opening Spiel
(00:30) - Introducing Ande
(03:18) - Chapter 1: Very first job experience
(06:48) - Chapter 2: Getting started with no experience
(15:19) - Chapter 3: If you could do it all over again?
(19:44) - Chapter 4: Describing an exceptional VA
(26:52) - Chapter 5: Getting into video editing
(33:55) - Chapter 6: Being in a creative rut
(36:22) - Thomas Edison quote

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Read the full transcript of Episode 6 here.


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Intro
Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the Briefing In Podcast, the show where we explore everything about the world of virtual assistants and share the voices of those who have built a successful career from the ground up.  I'm your host, Chelsea, and in today's episode, we're going to dive deep into what it takes to get started as a VA when you have no experience.

You're tuning in to Briefing In. 

For today's episode, I'm joined by a fellow Cebuano VA. Ande here is 23 years old and he really enjoys staying at home, but he also does enjoy going out occasionally, especially to beaches and thrift stores. And it's great because he lives in Lapu Lapu where there are so many incredible beaches and so many underrated hidden thrift stores. So he was born and raised in Lapu Lapu city, where he still lives. He has been with Wedding Workflows for a little over a year now, and prior to being a virtual assistant at the said company, he was studying aircraft maintenance technology, but he eventually had to stop, and then he worked as a customer service representative for two different companies.

During Ande's spare time, he really enjoys watching YouTube videos, especially those about travel, food, and tech. And he also enjoys drawing, or at least practicing drawing, while listening to his favorite tunes.

So Ande, welcome to the Briefing In Podcast.

Hello, Chelsea. Hello to everyone who is tuning in, pretty excited to be here, and I'm pretty honored to be here as well. So thank you so much for inviting me, Chelsea, and the whole Briefing In podcast team. Thank you guys.

Yay. I'm so excited that you took the time to sit down with me today and just share a bit about your experience. So before we get into the nitty-gritty, maybe you'd like to talk a bit about yourself, Ande, and about your time as a VA, walk us through your daily tasks and your main role and responsibilities.

Just a quick background check. I've been a virtual assistant for a  little over a year now, and, uh, my client is a magazine author and publisher based in Brisbane, Australia, and they specialize in destination weddings and also honeymoon destinations for couples and yeah, that aside, my main responsibilities with them include social media management, which right now they let me focus on their Pinterest accounts because they mentioned that it drives traffic to their website pretty efficiently, at least compared to other social media platforms. And I also help them out with their blog posts and email campaigns.

And apart from that, I also work with wedding workflows internally. I assist them with sales and also in creating content, specifically reels.

Yeah, I'm so excited to also talk to you about your experience so far as, you know, the in-house kind of video editor, Ande. But before we get into that, I do want to hear more about your previous work experience and how you transitioned to becoming a VA, specifically in the wedding industry.

Chapter 1: Very First Job Experience
So, take us back in time, Ande, and what was your very first job experience?

Honestly, it was quite a long time ago, so I don't know if I can share all the details about it, but I'll do my best. I'll definitely do my best. So before starting out my journey as a virtual assistant, I actually worked as a customer service representative for two companies.

So when I started out as a VA, it was absolutely quite a surprise,  a pleasant one at that, because there are no days that look exactly the same, which is a huge contrast from the previous job that I just mentioned where I literally did almost the same things every day, and I'm not saying it was bad or anything, but I guess that was also one of the many reasons why I felt really restless during those days.

So, I stopped and did a little research and I found out about freelancing, particularly about being a virtual assistant. And immediately I was hooked because, well,  you can literally work at home or anywhere, given that you have the means to do so, and also because a lot of them were accepting applicants without any experience, which I guess really fit my needs that time.

Yeah, so I applied to a couple of agencies, and I'm going to be fully transparent with you guys. I was actually able to start training at a different agency, different from the company that I'm working for now. Yeah, I guess it was around two weeks in when I received the email from Wedding Workflows, and it really appealed to me more, I mean, ever since I applied, I really had my eyes set on the company, the said company, because I just felt like I had more opportunity to be as creative as I want. And so far, I really don't regret that decision one bit.

Wow. I'm curious, Ande, if you can share what you're comfortable sharing, of course, but what was the other company like, or what specific leisure industry did it focus on? Was it also, like in the wedding industry or?

They were a general outsourcing company, so they pretty much accepted clients from all across other industries as well.

Oh, I see. Okay. And you had the chance to train with them also. Is that correct?

Yes, that's right. I think I attended two weeks of their training, but I did ask them, you know, properly that I'll be off.

That's pretty cool.

Yeah. Compared to the agency or the company that I'm working for right now, I think it was pretty different. I can even say that they are polar opposites and that, you know, right now I can really do, I mean, I can pace myself with any of the tasks, while I think for them, they were really strict when it comes to deadlines and such.

So, yeah, I think that's also what really turned me off during those days.

And because it was kind of like your first try or your first step into the VA industry and working from home, I can imagine how intimidating that must have been as a first timer. You said that you had experience. In two different jobs prior to becoming a VA. So you started working pretty early then.

I think it was around 19 years old when I started. I was also studying during that time, and unfortunately, because of COVID, we had to hold our classes online. So that also made it quite a bit easier, I guess.

Chapter 2: Getting Started With No Experience
So you've been hustling since you were 19. But how did you get started, Ande? I kind of also want to give the listeners some tips or advice or, you know, like a step-by-step guide on what they really need to do as someone who has, like, no experience, like yourself, in the VA industry. What are some things they need to have prepared and what platform should they go to? Where should they go looking for these prospects and potential jobs? And what can they expect, kind of, during that job application and screening process?

Thank you for that, Chels. Well, honestly, I don't think that you really need a lot as long as you have the devices to do so, especially a computer with you and just the willingness to learn. I mean, really, that's all I had as well when I started out and I think it also varies from one company to another, or if you decide to have a client directly, I think that would be a lot more pressure because, then you won't have time to train yourself, or you won't have other people to help you out. So you're kind of on your own on that note.

I think it would also help if you at least have a bit of idea about what being a virtual assistant is and all the responsibilities that come with it. So yeah, I guess that's also one of the advantages of working for an agency because they take care of all of those things for you, including training.

I mean, they really wouldn't let you off with a client without them knowing at least that you are ready for it because you are bringing the company's name with you. I mean, in hindsight, I think it sounds a lot like more pressure, but to be completely honest, just based on my experience, I don't think it is.

I think you would feel a lot more pressure on your end if you take in a client directly. And also right now, I think it's pretty hard. To look for clients directly because it's just such a growing market. Because of the feel of it as well that, you know, you can work literally anywhere and you're, for the most part, at least you are in control of your time.

And to add to what you said as well, I feel like if you have no experience and yeah, you don't really take the time to research about what a VA really does, going into it without having like proper training or without going through an agency, like what you said, kind of finding clients directly, I do think that it would be a little more disadvantageous for you, just because, if you have very little knowledge about the industry, I think you would be surprised at how wide of a range your responsibilities actually will be like, it's not just one thing and it's not just one task or one platform or website that you're going to be working on on a daily basis.

I don't know about you, Ande, but during my shift, I have like 10 to 15 different tabs and platforms open, multitasking and trying to accomplish all these like daily tasks and urgent deliverables that I need to get done for my clients. So yeah, I think if you go into it without knowing that and you look for clients directly, you'd be very surprised at how just broad and wide your responsibilities really are, even as a general VA.

That's true. And I can really relate to that as well, Chelsea. And also one of the advantages of being, I mean, working for an agency is that you have a community right behind you, right? I mean, like you said, you'll be handling multiple platforms, multiple software, and if you have a community behind you and they've had experience with that, you can always ask them, unlike if you are working for a client directly, well, you're left to your own devices. All you have is YouTube and Google and such, which I think is pretty helpful, but I think it's just a lot better if you have that, you know, community behind you, that human touch behind all those instructions.

Absolutely. And something that I learned from our guest during our previous episode too, was if you do kind of start becoming an independent contractor, just looking for clients directly, you are your own HR, you are your own finance department, you're your own sales and you're, you're your own manager because you have to look for clients yourself. You have to send out your invoices yourself. You have to raise concerns and ask for feedback and all those things yourself.

So seeing as you had the chance to kind of try with two different companies, what was it about the process of applying for a virtual job compared to the process with applying for your office job, the two other jobs that you had the chance to work with prior to becoming a VA? What was like the main difference or if you had culture shock, maybe like, what was the main thing that you found was different from those two processes?

To be completely honest, Chels, so far, I think both are the same. I think mostly because during the second job that I mentioned, I was actually interviewed online due to COVID restrictions.

So,  yeah, the process was pretty much the same, but the first one was actually quite different in that they had different phases of training. So you are trained for communications, and then you are trained for the account or the product itself before you are onboarded, that is. So, yeah, I think those are the main differences that I noticed.

I guess it really does come down to, like, what specific industry or what specific role you're applying for. Right? Yeah, that totally makes sense. But yeah, thanks for sharing that Ande it's kind of so insightful to know about your experience with getting into the industry and how you had a really great mindset coming into it as well. But, what is something you wished you knew when you first started out as a VA?

Honestly, I just wish that I had known that most, if not all of the tasks were learnable. I don't even know if that's a word, but, yeah, for the lack of a better word, merely because I felt quite a lot of pressure when I started.

I mean, I still do, but I guess I would have felt a lot less pressure if I had known that. So I just want to get that out there. So to the people who are tuning in right now as well, I hope you could learn a thing or two from that as well, because I don't think you really have to pressure yourselves, especially when you're just starting out and again, going back to what we talked about earlier, I think that's one of the advantages of working for an agency because - Well, you really won't have to train yourself, because people will have that all sorted for you.

True. Yeah, and I think you really have to just allow a bit of grace for yourself, right? Because there will be a learning curve and that doesn't change whether you are just starting out or even if you have a year or many years of experience if you start out on a new account that requires new responsibilities and kind of new skills, there will always still be that learning curve. I guess, yeah, be open to learning and don't give up. 

That's true. And also because, all of the clients have different work ethics as well, so I think getting to know that, getting to know them, would be a part of that curve as well.

Yeah, that's really, really great advice. I personally think that work is, I would say 50 percent your skills, right? Maybe 30 percent your work ethic, and 20 percent your attitude. So, it's always important to kind of have a good mindset and maybe also, I don't know, I personally care about work life balance. So, if that's also something that you prioritize, then it's really important that you do a bit of self reflecting and check your priorities and things like that, because it's so easy to just get lost and hustling and working too much, especially since you can just do it at home.

Chapter 3: If You Could Do It All Over Again?
But yeah, if you could do it all over again Ande, like knowing what you do now and having the experience that you do have now, what would you change if you were starting out again?

That's honestly a great question I haven't really thought about that, but let's just say I get a new client. I think I just pretty much do the same things all over. Because, I mean, innately, I'm just, I was just born as an overthinker, I guess you can say. So, I almost always overthink everything. So, that also kind of led me to be a perfectionist, or, I don't think that's the word.

Because, in vernacular, the word I'm looking for is “segurista”. So, yeah, being that said, I think I pretty much do the same things, in that I will always ask for feedback, I will always try and communicate with my clients as often as I can, because those are the two most important things. I think also, going back to what we talked about earlier, it would also be really beneficial for you if you expect that you are going to get a lot of criticism from your clients and that's totally normal because I mean, how else would you get to know their brand voice and such, right? If you don't accept those as constructive or accept those as mere feedbacks and not really something that is bad.

That's actually an amazing point, and I love that you highlighted that too, because being open to constructive criticism and asking for feedback is so, so important. And it really is a huge step in the process if you want to get better, and if you want to improve and just be the best that you can be in your given role, right? So, and again, like, it doesn't matter how much experience you have. You should still ask for feedback and you should still look for that constructive criticism. So thank you for bringing that up, Ande.

That's really true, Chels. And also, I think that's where a lot of people fall behind as well, because they take those as, you know, something hurtful, instead of something constructive. So, yeah, just use all those criticisms or feedback as almost a means for you to improve in certain aspects, at least.

I feel like, Ande, you've had such a great mindset from the get go, and that has really allowed you, and that has really shown in your work as well, and it's allowed you to accelerate your growth as a VA in our company.

And I can really see that in your work ethic and the work that you do, and honestly, your work speaks for itself. So I think that's one of your most admirable traits, that I'm glad that I'm learning now about you cause, you know, we haven't really had the chance to, to work closely together. So it's really cool to learn that about you, Ande.

And you know, one of the things that can really set a VA apart, right, is a combination of their soft skills and their hard skills. So in your opinion, what were some of the key factors that have contributed, like I said, to your growth and success, if you want to call it, as a VA?

Well I believe my time as a customer service representative, though really brief, really helped me out quite a lot, especially in terms of exploring and navigating different tools and software, because we used to use a lot of CRMs and such.

Oh, really?

Yeah. And that also taught me to be more efficient when it comes to multitasking, and those kinds of things. And also that experience also helped me better my communication skills. And yeah, apart from that, I guess also my love for arts, because most of the things that I do as a VA right now are creative tasks, like we talked about, just a few seconds ago, I guess, my ability to take criticisms and use them as a means for me to grow are I think what really helped me become a virtual assistant, I can say good, I think.

Chapter 4: Describing an Exceptional VA
Sure, I think you're just being very humble Ande, but I, I just know that our listeners will find all of your insights and advice, just incredibly valuable as, you know, they navigate their own, you know, kind of VA journey one day. But I am curious, Ande, how would you describe an exceptional or a skilled VA

To be completely honest, I don't think I have any idea how to describe an exceptional VA.  Given that this is my first time as a VA and yeah, just based on the things that I've learned and experienced so far, I guess you can say someone who is efficient with their tasks, or at least someone who takes their time in learning the ins and outs of their tasks so that they they can do their tasks efficiently without compromising on quality. I guess that's my view of an ideal VA.

Okay, and I guess it's not worth asking if you would ever consider yourself, one, the ideal VA.

I think I'm getting there.

Yeah? Okay.

But for the most part, honestly, like, I always notice that I keep telling myself, I mean, every after shift, I always keep telling myself, oh, I could have done a lot more if I did this instead of that.

So I guess that's proof as well, that I know that I still have quite a lot to learn as a virtual assistant and I accept that. 

Do you think, Ande, that to kind of accept or maybe claim that, you know, you're already incredibly skilled, and I hesitate to use the word perfect, but for the context of  my example, you're a perfect VA, do you think that wouldn't be beneficial and that would actually stop you from continuing to grow and evolve?

Yeah, I think that would be more of a disadvantage than an advantage, just in my opinion, like what we talked about earlier, our clients will vary from one another, like people vary from one another, and if you think that you are good at, you know, being a virtual assistant, which covers quite a huge range of tasks.

So I guess in general, what I'm trying to say is that there is no perfect VA, or if there is, I think it would be someone who accepts the fact that they are never going to be perfect, or that they are never going to be perfect virtual assistants, because they will always have, something to learn, you know, something to learn from their tasks, something to learn from their peers as well.

And something to learn from the ever growing industry, right? And it's always changing, the market, the marketing side of things, the way businesses run because we do kind of help our clients run and operate their business as a whole. Especially since most of our job involves social media and the internet and like an online presence.

That too is changing constantly based on how, you know, people engage with social media based on how they use different apps and, and things like that. But yeah, so incredibly wise, what you just said. I feel like if there was a perfect VA, then they would be someone who can acknowledge and accept that they aren't perfect.

That's just so wise.

Yeah, so I think in simpler words, we can also phrase it as someone who is willing to adapt or someone who is always adapting to not only their clients, but to the ever growing market, as you mentioned.

Absolutely. I think that's kind of one of the underrated things about, you know, working as a VA. That you're always kind of, like what you said in the very beginning actually. You were like in your previous job, you kind of did routine things, and then with this one, you're doing different things every day, and yeah, that's just so important. So, you are kind of on your toes a lot, I guess, which is, which is a part of the job, and I think it can also keep things exciting, right?

So yeah, I guess if you're the type of person who's looking for something that's not that, then perhaps being a VA wouldn't be the best fit for you.

That's true because I find that some people prefer their tasks to follow a routine. But, I think that's very tiresome because there wouldn't be any refreshers to your tasks, you know, when you take on them.

So being, I mean, having an ever growing list of tasks or having dynamic tasks or different tasks every day is also beneficial to that degree, because they can act as sort of refresher for one another so you can take on your next tasks with a fresher state of mind, I guess.

Yeah, and I don't know, I think I also personally find that I feel like I'm growing when I'm learning, so I guess I really enjoyed that aspect of the job that always learning something new. But yeah, thanks so much, Ande, for just sharing all that knowledge and all that really valuable advice. And I encourage, and I urge the listeners to really take what you said and apply it because it's just so.

I guess it does come from your mindset again. I just really want to highlight how you had a really great mindset coming into this. And, you still have a great mindset, even with almost two years of experience under your belt. And it's really allowed you to, to grow. So that's just incredible to see, honestly. And I know you're too modest to admit, but yeah, I think you really are one of the most skilled VAs that I've had the chance to kind of encounter or that I've had the chance to see here in the company.

So I hope you're proud of that too. I hope you're proud of how far you've gotten.

I am. Thank you, Chels.

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Chapter 5: Getting Into Video Editing
But now we can talk about video editing, which I know is, I want to say kind of an unexpected, maybe, role for you when you first joined Wedding Workflows. So how do you feel about that newfound role as a video editor and was video editing something you were always like, interested to dabble with?

To be completely honest, I have had experience video editing just for school projects though. And also some amateur YouTube videos.

Share links.

I don't think it's still up though. I even forgot what the channel's name was. So yeah, it's something that I've always absolutely enjoyed. So yeah, it really wasn't something new. Except for the software that I'm currently using because I'm currently using Canva for the most part. Especially for  our quote unquote animated videos. Because it's just the easiest software to use, I guess, for that, especially for me who is a beginner or me who  really doesn't have an experience with animation or with graphic design.

How did you kind of take on that video editing role? Because I imagine that maybe The team, because you work with the content team, shout out to all the members of the content team, but did they already know about your video editing experience, or were you the one who kind of like volunteered to do some video editing projects?

I actually didn't volunteer or neither did I mention that I knew how to edit videos, but they just let me try out for the content team. I think I was the first one to actually ever go through their course. Because that time I think a certain VA who was working with the content team, decided to leave, I guess, for some reason.

She left and there was an empty spot, especially for reels, because back then we really didn't have a lot of output in terms of reels. So, I think Barbs really wanted to up that, Barbs and the whole content team really wanted to up that number, because, well, as we probably all know, reels are really beneficial when it comes to reaching a significant number of people or a significant number of viewers, which could translate to clients maybe, or something like that.

So, yeah, they had me try out their course and they were, I actually didn't just try out for reels. I tried out for posts, stories, and all of that.  I think it was their decision that, I mean, they decided together with the whole content team, they decided that they want me to work on reels because they said  the reel I created was great and that it's worth posting to our Instagram.

So yeah, everything just went from there and I guess that's all. But isn't it kind of interesting how like these things just kind of fall into place too because it's kind of serendipity, almost that around the time that, yeah, like the team had to kind of say goodbye to the current or the previous video editor.

There was you who could fill that role as well, and I guess, like, the universe just made it happen, because, yeah, no one, if that was the case, like, no one would have known, right? Or maybe they could just tell, like, oh, yeah, Ande, Ande gives video editor vibes, so he might be, he might be good at video editing.

I actually didn't mention that anywhere, because I wasn't really that confident in my ability to edit videos and such, because as I said, I'm pretty much a novice and still am, and I still have a lot to learn, but I guess it was mostly based on what they saw with my outputs as well.

Because I was actually, I guess, recommended by, I think Christine, because of my sample tasks, she recommended me to Barbs and then, you know, Barbs just had me try out their course. And yeah, everything went from there, basically. 

And the rest is history, as they say. But I guess, you know, now that you have kind of solidified your role as one of the in-house video editors and being a huge part of the content team and the reels team for Wedding Workflows, what is some advice you would give, Ande, to aspiring video editors to help them get started, and maybe you can also share some beginner friendly apps and tools or even courses, YouTubers that they can watch to hone their skills?

So in terms of video editing, I think one of the best things you can do is to actually just start, you know, just shoot a couple of random videos and then start out and familiarize the app that you want to use because, I think the best teacher, when it comes to video editing is experience. I mean, you can watch hundreds and hundreds of YouTube videos, and if you don't try it out yourself, or let's just say you tried it out and explored the tools available in that software as compared to, you know, waiting it out and watching a hundred videos.

And taking, I think, months, just taking all that in. I think it would be beneficial if you start, mean, if you just jump the gun and, you know, start with, yeah, just -

Do it.

Just start. Because, again, the best experience is teacher, and if you get stuck with anything, then you can watch tutorial videos on how to get around all those things.

As far as video editing tools and software goes, I think I can really recommend Filmora. I mean, they're - not sponsored by the way.

If only. Maybe in the future.

In the future. Yeah, I'm pretty sure.

But they're UI or user interface is very beginner friendly as compared to, you know, other quote unquote professional video editing tools.

And for assets or for animations, I usually use Canva. You can just create animations within that and then change the background to green, and then you can, you know, chromakey to your videos in Filmora or whatever software you want to use.

Chapter 6: Being in a Creative Rut
Okay, great. Thanks so much for all those tips, Ande. And I'm personally not a creative person. So I always kind of wonder, you know, What the creative process is like and I know that it is different for everyone, right? But what are some things you do to help get those creative juices flowing or do you ever get into a creative rut? Maybe or what's that process like for you when you have to work on video projects?

I actually do suffer from creative ruts quite a bit, especially now that you know, we have to output more videos. Because the hardest part about creating videos is the conceptualization of them, and not so much the creation of them, because if you have a concept, if you have a flow going, then the other things would be a lot easier to figure out.

So what I do when I face creative ruts, or, you know, if I face quote unquote creative burnouts and such, I usually just scroll through, usually Instagram reels, because that's where the good stuff are, I think, and just watch a few creators, especially in the creative industry and get inspired by how they do things.

So, yeah, I think that's all. 

And I imagine that as someone, you said earlier, as someone who is a bit of a perfectionist, or someone who really wants to produce the best output that they can, and as a fellow overthinker as well, I guess you do kind of just need to get out of your head sometimes, right? And again, just do it.

Just get started and sit with the discomfort, I guess, or just being okay with like a bad draft or a bad output and  just work on sharpening and polishing that. Cause yeah, I can totally see how the conceptualization kind of phase is the hardest part. 

But this has been so insightful, Ande, and I'm really, really grateful that you said yes to being on the podcast.

But before we wrap up, do you have any final words of encouragement or advice for those who are just starting out and maybe feeling a bit overwhelmed? 

Well, just to reiterate what we talked about, I think it doesn't just go with video editing, but with really anything you want to do in life, just do it.

And you know, don't be afraid to fail because as Thomas Edison said, I have not failed, I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. So find out the ways that won't work for you. And eventually you'll find a way that works, right? As long as you just continue doing it. As long as you continue picking yourself up, then I don't think you really will fail if you just have that sort of mindset.

I think that is sort of the main theme of today's episode, Ande, is that mindset. I even think, it's like, I would describe it as a fighter mindset, you know, someone who's just willing to go for it and isn't afraid of, like what you said, failing. And it's kind of funny how it's a, it's a little throwback to your Halloween Costume. 

I'm so happy that we got to incorporate that somehow, but yes, to anyone listening, to the VAs, especially of Wedding Workflows, you guys know what we're talking about. 

But yeah. And, you know, failing sucks. It will hurt, but it's not the end. Right? You can always try again and you  can always keep going.

Especially if you use the hurt as a driving force to propel yourself forward even more than, I guess you really go places with that sort of mindset. 

I could not agree more. So yeah, once again, Ande, it's been such a great talk with you, and I'm so glad that I got to learn so many things about you that I honestly never knew.

So it's been a pleasure having you on the podcast. So Again, thank you so, so much for today. 

Thank you so much as well, Chels. I'm really honored to be a part of this. 

Thanks, Ande. And to our listeners, if you found this episode helpful, and I hope that you did, please be sure to, let us know, leave a review over on Apple podcasts and Spotify, reach out to us on Instagram and yeah, we love hearing from you because it helps us know how we can further improve the podcast and your reviews and your ratings also helps others find the show, and they can benefit from everything we just talked about on today's episode as well. 

So, yeah, thanks for tuning in to today's episode and I'll see you on the next one. 

I'm your host, Chelsea. 

And I'm Ande. 

And we're Briefing Out.