Niches & Virality: The Cost of Creativity

In this enlightening episode, we sit down with Mike, a seasoned freelancer and mentor in the creative industry, to discuss pivotal moments and career-defining experiences. Mike opens up about his long and winding journey from the corporate world to freelancing, and shares the exhilarating moment when he felt like he had truly "made it." We didn’t shy away from the hard questions either, such as the challenges posed by heightened competition, shifting market demands, and the pursuit of going viral in order to stand out in a saturated industry. 

With a series of bold statements, Mike discusses the delicate balance between pursuing lucrative projects and staying true to one's artistic vision, and how he learned to protect his creativity while pursuing this balance. Tune in for an inspiring and thought-provoking conversation with a passionate creative who bares it all.

Don’t miss an episode and get access to exclusive Briefing In content by subscribing to our newsletter!

TIMESTAMPS:

(00:00) - Opening Spiel
(00:54) - Introducing Mike
(02:01) - Chapter 1: Where it all started
(07:44) - Chapter 2: New chapter, new opportunities
(18:28) - Chapter 3: The lifeline as a creative
(23:18) - Chapter 4: Your value as a creative
(28:46) - Chapter 5: How do you stand out?
(37:43) - Chapter 6: The community, struggles, and one upping yourself
(46:54) - Chapter 7: A new perspective
(52:42) - Chapter 8: Quality over quantity, input & output
(56:59) - Chapter 9: Last words

CONNECT WITH MIKE:

Instagram: @tridentofcebu
Business Page: Tsuke

START YOUR VA JOURNEY:

As part of “The VA’s Playbook: Productivity Series”, you can now get a FREE copy of The 5 Essentials Guide for Virtual Assistants! Head over to our Instagram and click the link in our bio to access this guide!

Read the full transcript of Episode 8 here.

Music in episode from TELL YOUR STORY music by ikson™

Find us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/briefinginpod/

Find us on Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@briefinginpod

Chapters

• 0:00 Intro
• 0:54 Introducing Mike
• 2:01 Chapter 1: Where it all started
• 7:44 Chapter 2: New chapter, new opportunities
• 18:28 Chapter 3: The lifeline as a creative
• 23:18 Chapter 4: Your value as a creative
• 28:46 Chapter 5: How do you stand out?
• 37:43 Chapter 6: The community, struggles, and one upping yourself
• 46:54 Chapter 7: A new perspective
• 52:42 Chapter 8: Quality over quantity, input & output
• 56:59 Chapter 9: Last words

Transcript

Intro
 Hi everyone, welcome back to a new episode of the Briefing In podcast where we sit down with various industry professionals who have successfully navigated the ups and downs of freelancing. If you're an aspiring creative or a struggling freelancer in need of some direction, you're in for a treat. I'm your host, Chelsea, and this is Briefing In.

Hi again, everyone, and thanks for tuning in. Fun fact, this is Briefing In's eighth episode, which means we are nearing the tail end of our first season. And that's so surreal to say, so we truly can't thank our listeners enough for the support so far and for always tuning in on Tuesdays with us.

But yeah, we've had the chance to hear so many different life stories and work from home journeys in this season, but I think today's guest has plenty of experiences to share that are going to be unlike anything we've heard before.

Let's give a warm welcome to Mike, a seasoned video editor, known for his exceptional work and unique perspective on navigating the creative and freelancing landscape.

Thank you for joining us today, Mike.

Thank you for having me. I feel honored, very much honored.

By the way, Mike, you're the first guest that we've had so far who has confidently admitted how much they love being interviewed.

Well,  I mean, why not? You know, I mean, why wouldn't you want to be interviewed?

You can put yourself on a piece of paper but nothing tells your story more than you yourself, right? I get it that people get nervous in interviews but I think we should look at it from a perspective that is advantageous for us. 

And yeah, we get nervous, we get shy, let's pretend like you're talking to your friend, you know, like this.

I'm shy, I think.

Sure, Mike.

I'm pretty shy.

Yeah, you're shy.

Chapter 1: Where It All Started
But for our listeners, do you want to kind of introduce yourself and give a bit of backstory on how you got to where you are today, Mike?

Hi everybody, hello, I'm Mike. I started off in the corporate industry for five years, started off as a book corrections coordinator or basically a graphic designer for book covers, and then switched to real estate, graphic design.

Self studied for like three months on JavaScript, which was, not ironically, but stupidly – my course was programming, which did not teach us Javascript.
So what did you do for four years? 

Front end and back end programming, which is not my thing, you know. I was more into the creative side. I did go into my course because of technology, because I like computers and games.

And then going back, so three months of self study on programming, and I finally landed a job at Seismic, which I was – thinking of back then, it was actually an advertisement management company? Which had like big clients like BMW, Dove, Lysol.

How did you find them?

I don't know, I was just handing people my resume. Like if I think it's good for me, I was mostly looking for programming, cause I was a bit confident on web design now.

But yeah, I landed a job at Seismic, which was an ad agency,  which just opened my mind into the whole advertisement industry, the creative industry, how they make videos, how we manage videos, and then prepare them for social media or anywhere, TV, commercial, whatever.

So after that, three years and three titles. So I started off as a support engineer, I'm an engineer *laughs*, but it was literally just, I was like the only guy in the Philippines, the rest of the team was in Australia.

And basically did studies – not studies, but test new products, test new software, and then find the bugs, make solutions for the bugs. And then also did a bit of support for advertisement agencies that had issues with their ads.

So you were more on like back end stuff?

Yeah, back end stuff. And then, six months after that, I got switched to creative developer. I was like, ooh, something creative.

That was like, before I started, I did enjoy photography and then I kind of stopped because, you know, “I’m an adult now, we have to make money.” But then, when I was switched to being a creative developer, it was kind of a reintroduction into creativity for me and I found, you know, discovering that I really do love the creative process, like literally the whole process of being creative.

But then unfortunately I wasn't really shooting because it's all international advertisements.

So you were more on like editing things?

Editing and managing them for commercials, for export on TVs and such and social media. But mostly TVs and Flash was still alive at that time, so TVs, web and social media, which –

What's flash?

Adobe flash. I'm sorry. It's dead. It's like old school. It's not really that old. I'm not old.

I think you just revealed your age.

No, I'm like 18.  Don't be fooled by the beard.

Yeah. It was that, and then, the good thing is, I was kind of like the go to person for shooting things. Because when I was transferred to being the creative developer, we kinda had like internal projects, like shoot this, shoot that, and then, you know, having like a good – like it was a good paying job.

Not really high, but middle. Yeah, good. I was able to buy some equipment. I bought a GoPro, and then from there I just started shooting videos. And slowly they kind of – the company, Seismic, saw that I did enjoy shooting videos.

So I eventually became the video guy internally, even for Australia, because Seismic was based in Australia, I became the guy that did their sales video infographics, which was a six month or eight month project for me because that was really an introduction to the creative process.

From artboarding to doing it like on After Effects, like full on manual – watching on YouTube and we were also like shooting No shooting because it was a full on infographic  Animation so and I got introduced with animation from there And yeah, I was like eight months of just pure learning and some work.

I mean, maybe two projects a day, which was enough, and they were fine about it. And then after that, after about two years as a creative developer, the last few months in Seismic, I was actually an interactive designer now.

So I really did get into the design, like, just no more coding, because as a creative developer, it's not just editing, it's not just videos. It's around 70 percent programming.

Oh, okay.

We're programming designs. So we get designs from designers or like the ad agencies and they want to put this on websites. So we program it into the website. So yeah, and then the last six months was just me being the interactive designer.

And I worked with Budweiser. Which was pretty cool because I got to work with pretty cool banners, but it it was more of a western standard so that's kind of how I built up the standard of quality I'd like to live myself up to.

Chapter 2: New Chapter, New Opportunities
So yeah and then after that Seismic got bought out. I think they were losing money because they bought another company. And then a couple of us got, what do you call that?

Redundant, maybe? Got let go?

Not really redundant, we got kicked out.

Oh, okay.

We got kicked out but then I was fine because I was already planning to leave the company the next few months.

Like once you found out that they got?

No, I was just, like, I was saving up so I can start freelancing and this was around 2016.

And then by the grace of God, God was like, no, you can't save up that much. How about you just get kicked out and get like a severance pay, which was much more than I was expecting. And then I got – the CEO was like, “I'm surprised that you're so happy that you’re..”

You're being let go.

“You're being let go, man.”

Yeah, I was already planning, plus, the severance pay is gonna help. And plus, he did support me in pursuing into a creative industry.

Like, independently.

Like, independently. So, thanks, CEO. So yeah, and after that, at the start of my freelance journey, from the severance pay, I bought – I built a PC, which cost around like a hundred and fifty thousand like full on and then, well you know, you kind of have to invest.

For me I think you know investing in yourself and your equipment is really important. 

Especially since, I don't know, the bulk of your job is doing it.

Initially, it was, because my initial experience of it professionally was animation. So I really need the horsepower, like, the RAM. So it was purely focused on After Effects and photography.

But then I fell in love with actually shooting. But then my first few freelance jobs were like, just like, a couple of little short edits, like slow motion this, some B-roll there. Just like little YouTube channels.

And then eventually, I got my break, being able to edit for Jake Tran. Shout out to you Jake Tran. He's a great guy. Kind of has maybe like a bit of pride because he was like – I was around like four years older than him, but he was making money on YouTube.

When I joined in, he had like 600,000. And then before I left, it was like around a million and 200 subs.

And this was back in like 2017, 2018?

Before pandemic, like, yeah, 2018, 2019. 

I wonder how many subscribers he has now.

I think he has like two or three now. And from there that's how I really kind of focused on the quality of the work I'm doing, of the work I like to do. Because he was really keen on details, like, high quality.

He doesn't use any cheap edits, like, any cheap B-roll. Most of the B-roll was actually from movies. So I learned a lot from that guy.

Did you, like, work with a team or did you work directly with Jake?

I worked directly with Jake. I mostly did his advertisements. So, I guess it's just, it's more on, like, advertisements in my field. And then some complex animations, like graphs and such.

Yeah, and then from there, I'm finally here with my current client and I love my client. He's such a great guy, we have the same humor – dark humor.  Well, yeah, so honored to be invited by you.

But I feel like based on what you just shared so far Mike, you just keep on learning. Like every job opportunity you saw it as a learning opportunity.

Yeah, I personally think every failure, every opportunity, you get to learn even though it sucks for you because you failed or you were wrong.

Or you start back in like square one.

Or you start back in square one. But you know, it's just a matter of perspective that, “hey I could learn from this. I could be better.”

Maybe there are some instances that it wasn't your fault but you learn from them to be better for yourself in the future. But yeah, eventually just keep on learning because the world keeps on evolving and you have to evolve with that to actually be valuable in the industry.

Very true. So I guess I'm sitting down with like, an evolved Mike at this point. 

Evolved, quote unquote. 

But was there a specific moment? Can you name a specific moment when you realized that, wow, I've made it?

I wouldn't say that I have made it. I think the time when I was with Jake Tran, that was the first time I did really get, like, hired for a full on edit, Premiere, After Effects, Photoshop, Illustrator, Lightroom, like, everything.

And with good pay.  Like, pay that I can, like, be proud of. And then I was able to save up for actual filming gear. That was the moment that I realized that this is where I want to be and want to pursue in my life and have a business actually.

Like build a career.

Yeah, build a career out of, I guess, I don't know, the creative process is very fun.

Honestly, I'd rather do the whole creative process than like parts of it. Because you get more involved and you know, you can just control everything. Not that I'm controlling.

No one's saying that –

No I'm saying…

But yeah, so I think we kind of covered the past 10 years or so, is that correct? So five years ago, 2019…

She's good at math, you're good at math.

Thanks, but has it changed that much since then?

Very much. It's so much more competitive now, in a sense that there are a lot of low ballers. That is for me, kind of, the unfortunate thing about having all this saturation towards the freelance industry, because people get desperate eventually and then they lowball.

So they offer themselves at like really low rates and then clients eventually would prefer low rates. But then, also, what is learned from low rates is that it doesn't really equal to quality product, yeah, quality work.

So before,  for me, I think it was very competitive in a good way. That we're all trying to raise the standard. And then eventually, it kind of feels like everyone's trying to lower the standard. Just to have a job.

Well, I get it, because of the economy now. But I just still think that clients will pay for quality as long as we offer that quality.

But then there are clients that would prefer cheaper projects, like cheaper pay for freelancers. At what cost, though?

I was gonna say, like, does that hurt creatively as well? Because, of course, it is a job and, you know, it's a paycheck at the end of the day. But does that also hurt creatively? Like, seeing how people just settle for subpar quality work.

Yes, very much so. Because I learned and I grew up in this industry wanting to always be better.

Like, to better myself. Not be competitive with someone else, but to be competitive with my past self. With my past work.

And your skills, and what you can do.

Yeah. And then, you wanna do more, but then, you're just paid this much. Or like, they're asking for this much. To the extent that I'd offer it for free, just so I wouldn't have to be burdened by the low pay and then it would showcase in my quality that I wasn't really trying too hard.

So I'd forget about the pay, think about it in a way that this is for my portfolio, this is for my future. So, yeah, it does hurt. It affects creativity a lot, for me.

And I know you've touched on, like, how you've been working with international clients and taking on all these projects, but you also do work locally.

Yes, actually, after Jake Tran, after I was able to save for filming gear, I tried for three months in the local market. It was sad.

Cause, funny enough, while I was still in Seismic, I won a design award of – there was a problem in the Cebu market, wherein how do we connect local business owners to local designers.

So, I won that. It's like, yay! I was happy. And then, that's why, like, my CEO from Seismic was really pushing me to be creative.

So I really did take that to heart and then wanted to help the local business owners, like small business owners. And then I eventually found out that they don't really put a lot of value on quality advertisement, quality photos, quality videos, quality script writing, like content creation.

I tried my best to go through like, maybe this is just how you start locally. But then after three months, my savings were just, you know. It's just depleted, so I went back to freelancing after that. Yeah, it's great if you can survive.

And you, to this day, you still take up local projects.

Yes, actually, I still do. But I'm not, per se, how would you say, desperate for it. It's very nitpicked. I really talk to my clients.

I still kinda lower them from the actual price than how I would price freelance. But then if you think about it, I'm doing more here because I'm also shooting. There's the travel, there's so many variables rather than just editing, but then it's still priced lower.

I guess it's also like, again, experience, you're building your portfolio, like looking at it in a different way, like what other value does it bring to you?

Yes. That's a great perspective.

Yeah. Kind of shifting it from the financial kind of perspective, and just how it's building.

I guess you'd think about it like from, can I make money off of this? Or to, like, a perspective that is, how can this put me on the map, in the creative industry? To have, like, a name.

It just doesn't have to be a famous guy. But, just have the reputation “oh, he does great work.”

But it is still valid also. Like, of course, everyone will prioritize making money. Making an income, of course. 

But yeah, I guess it really is –

It's doable, but you're scraping off because there's already – the local market is so different from the international market. Even if, like, locally, if you're in the U. S. or in the West, like, generally just the West, if you're there, you're valued.

Chapter 3: The Lifeline as a Creative
Your work is valued. Creativity is valued. Here, it's more of an afterthought, like “oh, you can do that, like, later.” It doesn't have to be the best, you just have to upload it, but for me, I just think they're missing the perspective that, yeah, it can be done later, but why not do it now? We're already doing it.

And it's not like we're gonna take another day, or a whole week, just to make it better. It's just better planning. Because for me, quality work is just good planning.

Okay. Actually, you know, I recently listened to an interview, and someone said in that interview how being creative is more of, well it's both, but it's less of an intellectual exercise and more of an instinctive one.

But you bringing up, like, how there has to be planning involved, too, is a really interesting take on it. Because, yeah, I guess, I don't know, sometimes when you think of creative work or creativity in general, we always kind of think it's talent, but it's also skill and experience, right?

Yeah, and perseverance.

Yeah, it's not just something, like – if someone is talented, that means they're on the right track to becoming the best if they don't have the perseverance, maybe the work ethic, people skills even.

Dude, I have a story…

Okay.

The people skill thing man. I saw a post on a freelance group, and she was so proud that she landed this high paying client, like an advertising client, and then she only did the minimum.

Sorry – She only had the minimum skill set of being a video editor, but she was really good at selling it.

Okay, so she booked the job.

She booked the job and then she promised great things and then I looked at her portfolio and I was like, how?  I don't know man, it was just, it was kind of like, a bit eye opening for me.

At the moment I was like, that's unfair. Because I'm here, there's a lot of great creatives here as well. And then she gets it. Well, good for her. I mean, yeah. Good job, girl.

Yeah, but. I mean, I'm just an honest guy, so I want to be honest with my proposals, yeah, I want to be honest in my expectations. I don't want to over promise. And then they would expect this amazing product.

And then they see the product, like, “oh, it's just one of those internet videos.”

But that's also you being protective of the integrity of your work. You know, cause you really care about your brand.

Yes. And I think everyone should.

We talked a couple of weeks ago when I was inviting you, and one thing that really stood out to me from that conversation was how, you know, getting started may be one of the hardest things to do, and like what you said, in such a saturated market now, it probably is so much harder to get started.

But to actually keep going is the easiest thing to fail at. And that's not something a lot of people talk about. Like, yeah, you've opened that door. You're in it, but then –
What now?

Yeah, how do you keep going? Right? Have you experienced a lull maybe? Like feeling stuck or stagnant or burnt out or just like, you kind of got what you wanted by having this job and then you're like, okay, so what next?

I guess so, but I think personally there's like a drive in me. Like not that I want more, but personally, with my client, I want them to earn more, which equates to me earning more, but still, they actually have really great content, and it has good moral values behind it, like, everything behind it.

They're a training motivational speaker kind of thing.

Like, coaching and stuff.

Yeah, coaching. But then, there's so much moral value and lessons behind every slide or every topic that he talks about.

So yeah, I do get burnouts quite often because I'm the type of guy that works straight for the whole month and just gets depleted for the next two weeks or month.

You don't want it to be a month. It's just more of a work ethic thing. You kind of have to just keep going because if you stop – I mean, you got bills to pay. People depend on you. You just really have to keep going. And I did go all out, but then like, at the end of the month, this is all I earned.

That was like a reality check? You're like, oh.

A bit of, yeah, a bit.

Kind of like what you said earlier though, how it hurts also when you take on local projects because, you know, they don't put as much value in it and they don't compensate very well. That can also be very discouraging, right? 

Very.

Chapter 4: Your Value as a Creative
Yeah, exactly. I guess one thing I got from what you just said is also to choose your clients wisely.

Very much, because there are a lot of clients out there. Actually, you know, one situation right now that's a bit heated. I'm like, I don't know.

You're not gonna share?

I might share later on, but.

Okay.

Okay, I'll share a bit.

The guy, like the client, he has like millions of views.

This is a YouTuber?

He's a content creator.

Oh, okay.

But then, you know what sucks? You know how much he pays his editor? You wanna guess? He has millions of views, okay? Millions.

Is this a full time editor?

Yes. Full time editor.

Like per month?

Per month. Guess.

Let's say 25 – Lower. Wow.

20 – Lower.

15? Yes. I'm not done. 15 – Not minus taxes because, you know, freelance. Don't watch this government. 

Minus electricity and food.

That's per month.

That's per month. And he's not even there like of his own accord. Like he's asked to stay in the office because they made an office. So he's asked to stay there.

And then his cousin, who is my good friend, would tell me sometimes he'd go home crying because he'd get trash talked – because that's the word he would use.

So it's like a toxic work environment too.

Yes. Very much. For me, that's one of the reasons why you should kind of pick your clients.

Because eventually, it'll balance out. Usually the low baller clients are the clients that don't treat you well as a creative. And then there are creatives that would accept low balls and want to be treated well.

So I think those creatives should like, be more picky. Well, I get it. It's a bit harder, but you know at the cost of your mental health, it hurts.

Yeah, I think you should really nitpick your clients, but be realistic. You kind of have to be on the realistic side.

So one of the things you kept mentioning earlier actually was like building a portfolio, right? And I think that's also pretty common for creatives, like fresh grads, or even when you're already in the workforce, like you want to build a portfolio, how exactly can you build a portfolio?

And does that mean, also, that you should take up free projects?

Good question. Well, I think if you're really just starting out – I mean, if you're locally, if you're getting paid, that's a great thing because sometimes you really just have to think about your portfolio because for me personally, yeah, it's part of the sacrifice, man.

Doing free projects, free work.

No, I wouldn't call it free projects. I would call it passion projects.

Okay, sure.

I would say what I did is, I didn't take projects, that were like, oh, just for my portfolio, but projects that would showcase my skill set or improve my skill set. Like projects that actually are passion projects, because they are out there.

But still, even though you don't find clients, you can have a passion project and use that as a portfolio. When I was starting out, I had a lot of passion projects that I just – I didn't have clients, I just wanted to make this type of video. And then I just did it and then I used that as a portfolio just to showcase my skill set.

It's a bit better because you're not enclosed in a box.  You should only be doing these types of effects. You can really, you know, flex your muscles.

That's true actually.

Flex your skills. Yeah. So if you're new to freelancing, when you're still learning your skill set – rather it would be video editing, photography, make it like the best thing you've ever done and use those as a portfolio.

People don't know. I mean, clients wouldn't know, but then you're still flexing your skillset and you're still showcasing that to them and they would be impressed by it.

Like for example, the one in Seismic. The only reason they hired me was because I literally created my whole resume, at that point, as a website, like fully hard coded.

So you know, your portfolio doesn't have to come from a client, it can be your own passion projects.

Doesn't that also mean, your work is more of a reflection of yourself and of your style and of your branding. And maybe if you're just starting out, you're still figuring that out.

Yes. You're so much figuring that out. You don't know yet. Like your, your Instagram grid is probably going to look like a mix of different –

Cause you're experimenting.

You still haven't found your style, your brand, your colors, your theme.

And there is a space for you because, you know, the industry, not just the creative industry, like, so many industries nowadays are expansive and there are so many ideas and so many different personalities and different people and opinions and thoughts like that. There's a space for everyone.

There's always a niche. Everyone has their own.

Yeah, so like, don't be afraid to –

Yeah, don't be afraid to explore. Cause, you never know, your niche is the next million dollar, like, niche, we don't know that. I don't know that.

Chapter 5: How Do You Stand Out?
A follow up question though. Because there's like room for anything and everything under the sun nowadays, how do you stand out?

Ah, that's a great question. For me, I think be yourself. Pour your heart into it. Pour your heart into the project. I mean like, you know, just for me – I treat all my like edits, I treat it like something that I can be proud of. I guess the main thing is, do we have to stand out or do we have to be consistent?

Because standing out is easy, but then can you be consistent with standing out? And then if in terms of working, you can have like, great, great edits, but can you keep it up? That's going to burn you out eventually.

I'm not saying don't do great edits. Do something that you can be consistent with because consistency is really the key. Like the grind is really the key of, you know,  sticking out.

There's a lot of people out there that can make viral videos.

And virality kind of is, in relation to my next question actually, what most people are trying to achieve nowadays with their content.

Is to be viral.

Like I said, in relation to my next question, which is about commercial viability, does that influence the jobs that you take on?

Like, the best example that I can come up with is, cause you know, if a specific job is commercially viable, it's kind of in demand. It's what the audience wants. It's what gets the most views and plays well, I suppose.

But yeah, the best example that I can come up with for that is SDEs (Same Day Edits). You know you're more likely to book the client if you do that.

But you've been quite expressive with what you think of SDEs and how it, like, again, hurts you creatively. So, I don't know, is it safe to say that commercial viability doesn't influence your decision when it comes to the projects you do?

Me personally, it does but it's very subjective like it depends on all the variables. I just think that SDE is a great thing if you're not really looking for something creative, something with a story.

Well while, yes, you can make a story with SDEs but nothing beats a planned out story, unless you planned it out already. But I'm not really particularly sure about the whole wedding scene because it's so saturated that I didn't even bother going into it.

I mean, I did go into it but as a secondary photographer or like cinematographer.

Were you curious and that's why you wanted to try it out?

Yes, but then I didn't like the whole pressure thing in regards to “this needs to be finished by the end of the day.” So that's why I opted to be like the secondary so I can be creatively free.

Even if I would start now, like a wedding photography business or videography or the whole photo video thing on weddings. I'd probably still be a secondary, like, shooter. I don't know. I guess it's a me thing because personally, I prefer candid shots.

Personally, I don't think you can capture that much emotion and genuineness if it's all planned out. Like, okay, pose like this, pose like this. I'd rather be on the side and do – just talk to each other.

And the reason why you also kind of need it to be posed is because you're trying to deliver these things at like a very narrow time frame.

Yeah, I guess that's one of the reasons.

So, I suppose the quality suffers again as a result.

I would say, video wise, I guess it would take a bit of a dip, for videos. Photos, it's not that hard, especially if you're, like, really good at it already. You already have the eye for taking great shots. You already have, like, presets for colors or editing.

So photos can be an SDE, but videos, I personally think it would take a bit of a dip in terms of storyboarding. Just having like a meaningful – but then again, it's always meaningful because it's your day and you have a video.

So, but there is this one guy I know, he prices himself at like 70,000 for like a video, which is like the right price. But then he actually puts great importance towards the story and how it builds up to the wedding.

Like from how they met, prenup, to the actual wedding and the actual vows. And it's so much more touching, it's, like, I'm getting goosebumps right now just thinking about how he does his videos.

I think that is much more worth the money than just having something to look at at the end of the party just so your guests can look at it. Everyone can look at it at home. You know?

Plus, the videos are better watched on an actual monitor than like a projector.

During the reception.

Yeah. And everyone's busy with kids or with talking or with catching up with friends or eating. So, I don't know. I think it's just a personal thing for me that if I would shoot weddings, I'd prefer something on the creative side rather than “let's just do it just because they want, like, they want SDEs.”

But yeah, going back, maybe. Segued quite far back to what you asked. I would take commercial viable things just to showcase that yes, I can do it.

But then, it usually doesn't pay that good because it's saturated. I still go back to my own type of pacing. But I do them just for portfolio purposes.

But, for me, I'm not a creative person and I don't work as a creative. However, I will say that because I’ve worked with, you know, wedding professionals, wedding photographers, and videographers in my line of work, I think I have a greater appreciation for exactly what you just said, because to be honest, I didn't, I didn't think  They were as meaningful.

I mean, looking at photos, looking at videos, but after having known my clients and having worked with them and seeing their photos and their videos, I found that, yeah, shooting and capturing, like, wedding days is less about just having pictures and more about telling a story.

Capturing memories. Those laughs, those smiles. Those eyes, those tears. Like, there's so many things you can capture, but then you miss it. You're trying to get that one shot. But then it's the same shot from this wedding, the next wedding, the other wedding. And all other weddings, it's the same shot.

And what you said about how that videographer friend of yours really focuses on not just the wedding day, but also like the relationship of the couple and how they met and things like that. It's so much more significant as well because of the sentimental value. Like when you see it, it really reflects you, if you were the couple.

Like it reflects your unique relationship and personality. And it's not just like, a template that they already have built in.

Right? I mean, I'm not hating on wedding photographers or videographers doing SDEs. But, it's almost like the same thing. It's like one template – add all videos. Some music, some music here. Some have some special sound effects there.

And it's the same thing. It's the same, like, “oh, that was cool.” It wasn't really like, “oh, wow, wow.”

So I kind of like that, even though the wows aren't usually the ones clicked on social media, aren't the ones that have millions of shares or likes. But for the right people you're shooting, like the couple, they really get hit strong in the heart.

So I'm more on pursuing that rather than trying to get more clicks, but clicks are great, so.

That's actually something though, that my clients mentioned in their – cause they send out like a form, like a pre-wedding questionnaire, and they ask their couples, “in 50 years time, what do you want to see when you go through your wedding album?”

And I think that's such like a simple, but beautiful question because that just shows how much you care about being a part of these people's lives and being a part of such a huge part of their lives.

That's a wedding day!

That’s a one-time thing in your life.

Yeah, it’s a huge milestone, so I'm glad we got to talk about that, because I know how you feel about that aspect.

But just a disclaimer, I'm not hating, I don't – you guys are amazing at being able to do SDEs. That much pressure, like, my creative mind is – I mean, my mind, because you guys are creative too, is placed in a box, and I just, I get burned out. Maybe, like, three and I’m burned out.

And like, what we said earlier, you know, it's not just, like, doing a thing because it's a part of your skill set, it's also your ability to express creatively, and your work ethic, and your people skills, and there's so many different ways you could go about taking on projects. So yeah, maybe just doing weddings isn't for you.

And that's not a negative thing.

Chapter 6: The Community, Struggles, and One-Upping Yourself
I like advertisements. I actually do like advertisements. I don't know, I think the problem solving in advertisements is fun for me, you know, because you're trying to sell something that people don't necessarily would want to buy, but then you get them to buy them.

So we've been kind of talking on pretty heavy stuff so far, Mike.

Was it? 

But, I am really curious, and even though I know you said you've only been doing this professionally for five years, I feel like that's still a large amount of time for you to have achieved a lot as a creative.

So has there ever been one project specifically that's been so significant in your career or as a videographer, video editor that everything you've done afterwards has been an attempt to like, live up to that?

I would honestly say I'll try to live up to like every last video I made. May it be locally or from a client. So I try to one up every time – like for now, like my client now, he's a great guy and he really loves to showcase, like verbally say that like, “oh, what a great edit. Oh, I love it. I love this.”

But then I kind of would get “should I stop here, or should I” you know? Make even better edits. So to answer your question, honestly, I'd like to live up to all my videos, like every last video I made.

Locally the last video I made was about traveling in Cebu, like a short reel on Instagram, you know, I live up to that still. I want, like, the next video to be better, like, better colors.

I don't really think that the colors were great. I guess the storyboarding should be better, the audio, and then, like, for the client, well, the freelance side. Yeah, just more, more, more effects, more fancy, yet simple, yet classy effects.

But yeah, I'd like to live up to every video I made. Like the last, latest video. I wanna one up it, always. because, you know, it's always fun to compete with yourself, not with other people.

Because, you know, that can be problematic at times. I think.

And you know, I'm learning more and more everyday just how small the creative community is here in Cebu.

It's quite small.

Yeah, it is.

It's like all the editors of content creators here know each other.

Yeah, you like meet one and then kind of get talking and you mention a name, you know.

Yeah. They're like, “Oh, yeah, I know them.”

It's a small community of introverts. So, it's small, but we don't really kind of like talk to each other.

You're not an introvert.

I am an INFJ.

I- I'm an INFJ.

I'm an INFJ.  I mean I took the test multiple times, even my girlfriend thinks that I'm an extrovert because, why am I so talkative? And then she eventually found out that I just didn't have friends to talk to when I was younger.

So now that I have friends I can talk to, I'll talk. It's not sad, totally.

But wait, has it ever, has this ever happened? Like, cause you know how you just mentioned your client and how much he appreciates your editing and stuff, but has it ever happened – you and your client clashing?

Yes – And how did that go?

Not the client and me. The client and the videographer.

Well, it was very professional and adult. They were mature. I think we were all mature in the clashing of ideas. 

Because he wanted this, and I already have some experience of what he wanted, and then I think that's a bit substandard. Not substandard, but mediocre. And not saying my work isn't mediocre, but I try my best to not be mediocre.

Every time that he – because we don't have a graphic designer. We used to.

In your team?

Not necessarily. Like, they hired out like a team of developers which had a graphic designer. So eventually that was the guy that did the graphics, but I think he was just doing it just for the pay, because it wasn't really, you know, like.

He was bland, when you look at his graphics, you just like scroll away. And then I started commenting, I started commenting a lot like, “Hey, I think we could do better in this area.”

And then we do clash. And luckily enough, he's very mature and he trusts me. So even though we do clash, he looks into it.

And either, I compromise or he compromises. Or we both compromise because sometimes it's just not viable, like budget wise, you know? And then with the videographer, we actually clash a lot.

It's mostly on shooting, like lighting. But yeah, we mostly clash with him in regards to framing, lighting, lighting the subject, lighting the green screen, and then the audio.

Because, well, he's a bit younger, he's like 20 – when he started with this client, he was 25. Now he's 26, I think. He was a wedding videographer, and his shots were actually great.

But then, my client is like, you know, it's all about HVAC and plumbing, and what HVAC is – Ventilations, heating and air, you know?

So maybe it wasn't his niche, but it was more on green screen, a lot of lighting, and me, as a person that has experience on actual shooting people, with a camera, of course.

Of course.

This would've been a very different episode.

Just so you can get me on record, with a camera. I'm very vocal if I think that we can make it better, I will really try to make myself heard and say “hey, let's try to maybe improve the lighting here because there's a lot of shadows here, there's a lot of shadows there.”

That's the reason why I do enjoy the whole creative process from shooting. Because to be honest, I'm not a fan of the quote, “oh, we can fix it in post.”

You know how hard that is? How like, what the heck? That is such a headache to fix things in post. Where it could have been fixed so easily during the set. So that's why if we can fix it on set, let's fix it on set.

Because that's gonna cost us like what, maybe 30 minutes of fixing it. In post, that's gonna cost like 4 hours, 3 hours, we don't know.

For example, just lighting. If this was just like angled wrongly, and there's so much shadow in my face, that's a bit hard to fix in post, because a part of my face is gonna be blown out, and part of it is gonna be so dark.

And then I'm gonna be moving around, so that’s gonna take quite some time of tracking, and then just editing, basically.

So, yeah, we do clash a lot, just because. If it can be fixed on set, let's fix it on set because it's cheaper and easier.

And more time saving.

It saves us more time. It saves more money for the client, you know? So we kind of have to look out for the people that are paying us as well, especially if they're nice, great people, with values, it's heaven sent.

I can tell how long you've been holding that, like how much you hate the phrase “let’s fix it in post.”

I mean, I get it sometimes. I mean if it's a photo, it's easy, but if it's a video, it's a whole different ball game if you're trying to fix it in post. Like for example “Oh, there's this lighting, there's this like thing on the side.”

“Oh, that's fine. Let's just fix it in post.”

And then like, I have to track every single frame. You know how long that takes? And the whole thing stays there for like 30 minutes. Do you know how many frames 30 minutes is?

But I feel like that's the issue also. Like, the root of that problem is that, I think people don't really get what you do also, like, in post. They don't understand.

There is like a belief that non editors would think, “oh that's easy.” Or even non photographers or videographers like, “oh, he's just clicking a button. That's fine.” 

No, it's not. It's not just clicking a button. There's so many things that go into it. Framing in itself is just something you really have to think about.

Being technically savvy is really easy, but being creative is the hard part. The thinking is actually the creative part of everything, not really just like, oh, being able to edit this. Because everyone can edit, everyone can be taught how to edit. It's really not that hard to edit, technically, but thinking how to edit that.

That's where you use so much hours of trying to look for music. Oh, bro, that's gonna take quite some time. And it's not like, you find the music and then you edit and then like, wait, the music kind of sucks. Go find the music again.

It's gonna take like an hour, another hour. But yeah, so creativity for me, like everyone can be taught to take a picture and edit something technically. But the creative part is actually solving the problem.

Chapter 7: A New Perspective
Like how to tell a story with images or with visuals.

And that's what you're getting paid for.

Yeah, I think so. I think that's what you're getting paid for.

And that's why also you should be getting paid – that's the work or that's the value of your job. It's not just to take pictures.

Yeah, it's mostly just everything except the taking of pictures. I mean, yeah, technically you just have to click – you can click on a cell phone. You can click on a camera.

I've known people that had way expensive cameras for their own skill set and just put it on auto, and then they don’t even edit it and they just wanted to buy it just so they have an expensive camera? I don't know. But yeah.

So Mike – Yes.

I think this is my last question for you. We're nearing the end of this interview.

No. So short. 

But what got you interested in mentoring? Because that was something that came up during our conversation and it's something that you're quite passionate about as well, like being able to mentor and coach and just teach like the next generation of creatives.

So why are you interested?

I could answer this with one word. Or not one word, with a phrase and we could be done, but I want to talk. 
No, I will answer it with like a phrase.  I don't like gatekeeping. I do not like people that gatekeep.  And I believe that we should not gatekeep how to be creative, how to use software, and like the little tips and tricks.

It's all over YouTube. But then, I don't know, apparently it's hard to find those information. So, if anyone –

Do you think it's hard? 

I don't know. Personally, I don't because, I mean, I've been told by my girlfriend because she thinks it's hard sometimes. I think it's more – the reason why I don't find it hard is because all of my life I've been in front of a computer.

Well, not really. I mean, we didn't have a computer, but when I started having a computer or internet.

I'm a millennial and I've grown up in front of the internet, with the internet. So, I'm kind of used to scouring the web for information. So hence I wouldn't find it really hard, but then there are people that aren't really used to the internet.

And if you want to know something, if you want to know some tips and tricks about Premiere or anything, I'm more than willing to teach you or to tell you, because I think everyone should be able to maximize their capabilities.

But then, as creatives that've been in the industry, we shouldn't be thinking that they can be competitors, but new perspectives, because newer editors or newer creatives have a way different outlook or perspective on things and solving problems.

And I think that's very unique and that's something that you could learn from as a creative. So yeah, don't gatekeep, man. Just, yeah. Share knowledge. Knowledge wasn't  meant to be kept in a box behind your trunk, under the house, by the river, near the lake.

What?

I don't know. 

And also, isn't, kind of, being comfortable or just staying in your comfort zone, doesn't that also mean you're not growing because, I don't know I think growth sometimes comes with hardships and a bit of discomfort.

Yes, funny enough, see, this is one of the reasons why I think my client has really valuable – I'm not trying to sell my client, I'm just like using it as an example –  has really like valuable information because that's one of his main slides.

Get out of your comfort zone because if you're always in your comfort zone, you'll really never grow. As a person, as a professional, like in personal development or anything in life, I think.

If you want to achieve something you really have to go through some thick and thin.

I totally didn't like look up your client and just read his slides for as part of research for this interview…

Did you? did you not?

[sarcastic] I don't even know who your client is.

Okay.

Because you know how you were talking about how it's so easy for anyone to learn how to edit and you just have to like put a filter, take a picture, put a filter. And that's kind of it.

I think it's also a result of the fact that everything is accessible and available now. You know, I think back then – again, maybe the information or the resource wasn't asked, was gate kept. Who knows – but it wasn't as widespread, you know.

But then now everything is like, anyone can be a photographer, anyone can be a video editor, anyone can be a videographer, anyone can be a YouTuber, anyone can be a content creator, but there's still space for those who just are in love with the creative process like yourself.

There is much of a space there, yeah. I think everyone, I mean just my observation, majority of social media, everyone just wants to get that viral video. And you know, like, without all the whole process of being creative or like trying to get the best shots, for me, I think how to stand out, right now in the social hemisphere, it's quality edits.

It's quantity over quality.

It's quantity over quality. But I just remembered, I've also heard of this from an online coach, which I absolutely did not get from. I'm just saying.

You're not crediting this guy.

I mean, good job for him for trying to push that agenda. Because it's true, I believe and support it.

Chapter 8: Quality over Quantity, Input & Output
And I will say it here as well, that everyone is competing for that viral video, trying to upload three, five times a week. But not a lot of people are trying to upload quality videos. There are a handful of people that are doing it, and unfortunately they're also not getting a lot of likes, or clicks, and views, but some are.

I think to actually stand out is to actually take more time in creating your videos. Being keen to detail, like looking into the details of everything. Maybe that's just me too, but I don't know.

It's just a suggestion I might like to give to people to be detail oriented. Because you wouldn't think people notice, like, about the small details, but people do.

Especially the people in the creative scene. They really do. Like, I think, I do. I'm a bit of a judger, I would say.

Just a bit, yeah.

Just a tiny little bit. I would see, like, a lot of videos being uploaded. And then I can tell they're trying to be cinematic. But it looks like it's just a yellow filter on it.

It's like, that's it.

Oh, no. We follow each other on Instagram, Mike. So I'm gonna like think twice before posting it.

Oh, no, it's fine. Trust me. I nitpick who I judge.

Okay. Well, that's, that's comforting.

Not that I judge a lot.

This is recorded, by the way. – I don't judge. 

It's funny how you kind of brought that up again, because it made me think about what you said regarding that graphic designer who had kind of bland designs and bland edits.

Maybe that's also why his edits were bland because he didn't, have he wasn't in love with the creative process?

Maybe he just did it for a job. I mean, I understand we all need money. Don't be afraid of trying to pursue your niche because the audience is out there, you just kind of have to look for them.

And if you like it, most likely someone else likes it, especially like creative wise.

But I feel like that also really does boil down to the person's values again, you know, if you really want to protect the integrity of your work and you really want to push yourself and live up to your previous work every single time, then that's the kind of creative you are.

But then there are also like other creatives who don't want to go out of their comfort zone and they want to stay –

And that's okay. If that's what you do, if that's what makes you happy, man or woman,  it's fine. You know, you don't have to push yourself just to please other people, I think.

It's all on you because at the end of the day, it's your life.

As long as it's fulfilling.

Yeah. As long as it's fulfilling, meaningful to you. Oh man, I just thought of something – my client, it’s also like one of the things he teaches.

Yes? 

It's about, like work ethic. There's 24 hours in a day. You sleep, what, maybe six to eight hours. So you have 16 hours.

Yeah.

You have another eight hours of work. Let's say you work a nine to five. That's another eight hours. So what would you do with the eight hours? You have eight hours, and let's say you eat for an hour. 

I mean, you eat three times a day.

Three times a day, an hour. So that's what, eight minus three is like five hours.

You have five hours of doing what you can, you can be learning. You can be editing or you can be, like, personal development, personal growth, exercising. 

So, it's really up to us as a person of what we want to do. We are, we can just be sitting down, watching TV, binge watching an epic series. Which is fine!

The new season of Bridgerton, yeah. 

I have not seen that series. I might want to.  But at the end of the day, it's, do you want to earn more, or do you want to be better? If you do, there are steps to be made. Like, there are sacrifices that we have to take. Unfortunately, in this world that we live in, you know.

And no one can make them but yourself.

No one, but yourself.

Chapter 9: Last Words
Yeah, I guess that's it for today, Mike. The sun is out, so I'm guessing –

Oh no, I'm sorry, I'm talkative. 

No, don't worry. This has been a really, really great conversation, and I'm so glad that I invited you.  

Thank you for inviting me. 

Absolutely.

Thank you very much. 

And I hope you had a good time. 

I did. I'd love if you'd invite me for part two.  

Wow, Okay, we have that on record. 

Okay. 

I mean, like I said, this is season one, so… 

I'll be back for season two, everyone.  

Let us know if you want Mike back. 

Please want me back.  

But, yeah. Any last words of wisdom or piece of advice for those who are just starting out or are having a hard time making it.  

Do not give up! I mean, I get it, we all get burnt out. Always have time for yourself and your mental health and physical health as well.  But don't let the naysayers get to you, you know. 

Just stay consistent. If you're having some troubles, be honest. Be honest to your clients. They're humans as well. They understand. 

Just don't give up, you know. Just keep going. Keep grinding. 

And it is going to be hard. 

It's not even like hard in the sense that “am I gonna get clients.” But in a sense, the hardest part is what you said earlier. Is how do I keep going? How do I get motivated to do this work to my full extent?  

And that's gonna be like your work ethic, like you have to find – 

It's your work ethic that's gonna get you through. 

Yes, just persevere because it's gonna be worth it. It's really, really gonna be worth it. You're gonna get to create relationships, good relationships.

Your clients might ship you out to their country, which is such a great opportunity. But yeah, just keep consistent, keep going. 

If you're too burnt out, go touch grass. Go out for a bit, you know, go to the mountains, take a dip in the ocean or pool, whatever you like. Go out on a date, watch a movie, you know.

Our health, It's one thing that we need to prioritize because if we don't have health, how the hell are we going to be able to work and earn that money? We really gotta take care of our bodies and our minds.  

Thank you for having me. 

Of course, Mike, and thank you so much for spending your afternoon and portion of your evening with us.

Hopefully it was it was informative. If anyone wants to ask me a question,  hit me up. 

And we will actually be telling our listeners that you're open for mentorship, right, so.. 

Yeah, if anyone wants to, you know, just learn more. And if you hate people gatekeeping, please hit me up. I hate it too.

But let's not hate them. Maybe they're just afraid of you because you're because the next creative that's gonna make it a competition. 

Yeah, competition.  

But that's all in good sportsmanship, you know, competition is fine because that's how we see new perspectives. 

And how we kind of motivate ourselves to keep going and get better also.

So yeah that's it for today's episode, you guys. Thank you all for tuning in. And again, massive thank you to Mike. 

So until next time, keep creating and pushing the boundaries of your craft and protecting your integrity when it comes to your work. 

So, this has been your host Chelsea with –

Mike.

and we're Briefing Out.